The Tangent: Classic Confusion
Ah, I love the smell of giant banners in the morning. As you’ve hopefully noticed already, TSSZ recently got a brand new makeover, with new logos and plenty of Web 2.0 trimmings. So on Hedgehog Day, and as Sega ramps up promotion of Sonic’s 20th anniversary, an impressive accomplishment for a character who’s only 15 I might add, it only makes sense to reflect on a fairly unique image crisis they’ve had brewing for some time now.
In 1991, Sonic’s roly-poly form blurred across TV screens of multiple nations. In all regions, Sonic’s trademark `tude was in show on the box as he waved his finger at the buyer, or perhaps he was pointing you toward a copy of Flicky on the shelf above, who can say for sure. But America’s depiction of Sonic had a slightly different look to him than the Japanese one. You could argue it was just a difference in the artist’s style, but that doesn’t change the fact that Sonic’s design was “Americanized” during the development of the original Sonic the Hedgehog, and this causes some big battles between Sega of Japan and America. I won’t bog the article down repeating what a lot of you already know, so if you haven’t seen it, watch this GameTap retrospective, it details a side of the Sonic development process Sega doesn’t usually talk about.
Even as Sega of Japan grew to tolerate the alterations, a design dilemma was slowly coming to a head. Drawn from certain controlled poses, Sonic’s classic design looks fine. The same goes for the in-game sprite work: certain visual cheats are used to make them look good, even at angles where they shouldn’t. When Sonic made the jump to 3D, the techniques to translate these visual cheats to polygons hadn’t yet been developed, so after a few early attempts, Sega was forced to alter Sonic’s design to better suit 3D and a user-controlled camera. From here, Sega decided to go all-out with a new visual style, complete with “Keep on Truckin'” Sonic with longer quills and limbs, a less-tubby torso, and bright green eyes so he can see where he dropped his rings in the dark. Other characters saw varying amounts of changes, like Amy stealing Claris’ Christmas outfit, and the good doctor donning his goggles. That do nothing.
And that’s how they’ve appeared since, barring a few tweaks and tucks. Even in and on products that focus on a classic Sonic experience, in any new art necessary for title screens or packaging materials, Sonic is drawn with his post-Adventure stylings, with one notable (not recycled clip-art) exception present in the US only, very recently. As stated in this Nintendo Power interview about Sonic 4, when quizzed about the possibility of a retro Sonic skin, Takashi Iizuka replied, “all Sonic character designs were changed in 1998, and since then, all new titles have those new designs.” For some reason they will still reference the old sprite work, even inside of games like Sonic 4, but in any large-form artwork or new development, Sonic is to have his new design. At least they’re being consistent, right?
Marketing apparently wasn’t listening, however, and has sent some mixed signals to consumers. There is a big audience for nostalgia in the US and Europe, and some people who dislike the new designs have found themselves increasingly catered to in recent years. This goes beyond a random Hot Topic shirt or two; chess sets, retro plushies, $160 statues, with more potentially on the way, that and more focused on a look the series hasn’t sported in almost 13 years, despite still being active. Even the licensed Archie comics add to this, with new Sonic Archives adorned with freshly-drawn covers mimicking the classic Japanese artwork. Now, this isn’t the only license to have multiple marketed eras, you could perhaps relate it to pop stars who have particularly iconic moments in their careers, and there is the overwhelming desire in marketing to milk people’s nostalgia for a series they may no longer follow, or “long for the old days.” Yet it’s strange that Sega would approve of all this marketing, when it creates expectations for the games they, so far, have had no intention of fulfilling.
Not too long ago we saw the release of Sonic the Hedgehog 4, billed as a direct sequel to Sonic 3, even in story. But if you had any distinct memories of Sonic 3, or played it via one of the many download services or compilation titles available, you’d be blind not to notice the differences in character design. Sega had an opportunity to retroactively, smoothly transition Sonic’s design from the classic look to the current one over the series of episodes, in some ways bridging a gap that they had before expected everyone to jump over. But no, Sonic was there exactly as he appeared in Unleashed, and someone within Sega adamantly refused to even include a retro Sonic skin optionally, despite the large number of requests for it even before the delay. In some ways, I think this added to the “classic pretender” feel of Sonic 4 many expressed, claiming it was a direct sequel, but refusing to take that extra step and possibly dilute Sonic’s brand image for even a moment to do it justice. Between this and the inclusion of things like the homing attack and boosters, it gave some the feeling that someone at Sega wasn’t really prepared to commit to a “true” sequel, even if this was the original intention of the development group.
Yet, so soon after Sonic 4, there’s this feeling that something’s shifted within Sega. Sonic Colors hit the market just a month after the delayed Sonic 4, and it’s hard to pin it down, but the combination of the writing and structure of the game was somehow a better throwback to “Classic Sonic” than Sonic 4 turned out to be. With a new voice cast and writers, it feels they want to take a different approach to the series, perhaps re-evaluate some of the decisions that were set in stone before. Iizuka expressed his work with the Mario & Sonic titles to be a real eye-opener, and stated that as an influence on the design of Colors, for example.
Then at the start of the year, Sega opened the Sonic 20th Anniversary Site, and with it, this artwork was released. Not Sonic posing by himself like anniversaries before, but posing with his classic image redrawn, if even just a trace. I know it doesn’t sound that impressive (“It’s just a picture”), but this is an image they’ve basically washed their hands of for over a decade now. New Sonic was The Sonic. Looking at the toys I linked above, the prototype Jazwares are branded with the 20th Anniversary seal, and actively note their reflection on the hedgehog’s history. Is it possible that with Sonic’s platinum anniversary, that we’ll see a true embrace of past and present both within the brand? It’s probably too much to hope for, given prior history, but it would make an interesting change if so. Even the most recent Sega blog update may suggest a direct comparison in the cards. You’ll also note that months after the release of Sonic 4’s first episode, there’s been no word or image of the second. Episodes are traditionally developed ahead of time, or with a significantly overlapping schedule, so they can actually be released at a reasonably-paced schedule, and avoid the Half-Life trap. Assuming, hoping, they didn’t wait until the very moment Episode 1 went live to start work on Episode 2, that might suggest some significant changes or additions to the title. Either way, further new Sonic title sit unannounced; once those are brought to light, we’ll have a better idea of how Sega’s approaching this anniversary, and their history. Hopefully there’s a little of this in their plans.
![[ID: yYStRnfFkss] Youtube Automatic](https://lastminutecontinue.com/wp-content/uploads/2024/04/id-yystrnffkss-youtube-automatic-360x203.jpg)
![[ID: xjSZ-m_6fPI] Youtube Automatic](https://lastminutecontinue.com/wp-content/uploads/id-xjsz-m6fpi-youtube-automatic-360x203.jpg)
Before I even finish reading this, can I just say how ridiculous it is that BOLD text stands out more than the hyperlinks you included (not that you are to blame for that, of course)? I literally would not have noticed them were it not for a curious and wandering mouse. “Web 2.0 trimmings” indeed.
And that’s more on me. At a point very soon I’m going to dig into the CSS and try to get the link color situation sorted out.
-T
That would be awesome 😉 I’m sure Solus would appreciate it too. Looks like he went pretty heavy on the hyperlinks with this article. Shame to see them overlooked.
Half-Life trap indeed. But if they haven’t even released a bloody trailer for Episode 2, I think we may be throat deep in said trap.
Cool article.
Well, the toy box said “Sonic Through Time” so what I was thinking was that Sonic 20th might be about Sonic and friends travel through time to the past and meet their bulgier selves. It’s an idea.
I like it, I myself wrote a feature article for a blog I write for, the article in question called ‘Sonic the Phoenix’. I thought SEGA had seen and addressed the mixed marketing messages, and had addressed them Sonic 4 and Sonic Colours, which went for each target audience SEGA themselves created.
Comics do fine with having multiple takes on the same character even Nintnendo does with games like Paper Mario and the various branches in Zelda why does Sega not get it?
@Eggfang
Those are all slightly different examples. In the case of Zelda – Link isn’t actually the same character in any of the games (except Majora), so they can get away with changing his appearance.
Paper Mario, on the other hand, features an entirely different art STYLE, not character design. It’s like comparing Sonic Advance and Sonic Adventure. Same basic character design, different artistic mediums.
Not even gonna mention comics, with all their retcons, and 50,000 alternate universe reboots all convoluting the shit out of each other XD
Character models do not affect the gameplay, people. Sonic is fine the way he is, and I like the modern designs. Heck, I always have gotten used to new changes since Sonic and company had this modern design since 1999, and I don’t get why you people want your beloved old designs back. It’s like telling a professional artist to only draw stick figures like little children, and that does not make any sense to me. Let SEGA draw whatever they want. Sonic’s their thing, not ours. We’re just fans and nothing more.
I have nothing against the classic games, since I like both classic and modern Sonic games equally (Same with other game franchises), but I wish people would stop complaining about the new just because they like the old better or vice versa. And no, the games are not going the way of the SatAM Sonic TV show in terms of voice casting or such (I have nothing against SatAM, I like it, don’t get me wrong, but people shouldn’t treat it as something that’s better then the games). Ugh, nostalgic whiners sure annoy me sometimes.
Sonic is Sonic. No matter what the design is. Accept it.
@Vulpine: As much hate as I’m gonna get for saying this, but screw it– Amen, brother.
I’m with you on the “Half-Life Trap” thing. I’m a hug Half-Life fan, it’s my second favorite series after Sonic… and it’s been DANG too long since we’ve heard anything about Episode 3…
As for Sonic 4 Ep: 2 featuring Classic Sonic, comon! That’d make it WORSE! Having episode 1 featuring new Sonic, then the sequal featuring the old one, that makes no sence, unless they were to update the old one… which they are VERY unlikely to do, im my opinion.
@SpeedingHedgehog
Exactly. It would make no sense if Episode 2 uses the old design if Episode 1 already has used the modern design already. Not to mention Sonic Colors, which sold like hotcakes and was the most ‘successful’ modern Sonic game in years, uses this design. I wish people would stop complaining already, as their complaints have gotten old by now.
Well, I wouldn’t mind an all-new design for the characters that’s a cross between the classic game design and the current modern design, but like you said, it’s unlikely at this point.
@Vulpine: Sonic Colours didn’t sell like hotcakes at all.
I always had the impression the classic Sonic design was under some other license which is used for merchandise. I would bet that the classic sonic design has a different set of rule which cannot be used for games no more hence why they didn’t at least slam a “classic skin” into any game since the change.
as long as Sonic Anniversary is not another “SONIC GENESIS COLLECTION” or “GEMS COLLECTION” or “MEGA COLLECTION” compilation game, if ya know what I mean.
That’s all I’m worried about, really.
Sonic’s design, and whatever this article was talking about doesn’t really affect me much in my opinion. sorry.
I honestly dont care about the design. I mean really, all these retroers shouting their heads off are just ridiculous. I actually prefer modern Sonic. It means im not stuck in the past.
(EDIT – Inflammatory -T)
……….aaaaaaaaaand Vulpine misses the god damn point.
Again.
For the millionth time, just so you can preach about BAWW PEOPLE STOP BAWWING ABOUT GREEN EYES.
Sorry to go full 4chan on you but seriously, cut that shit out.
People who claim Sonic’s look doesn’t matter always end up with fuck-ugly girlfriends. Fact!
@Jasonchrist
I’m pretty sure it’s the other way around. 😀
Character models do not affect the gameplay, people.
Aaaaaand with this craptarded opening line, we get a clear indicator that Vulpine is missing the point yet again. Hold on tight, people, we’re in for a very stupid post.
Nobody was talking about gameplay, or said that it was affected by character design.
It does, however, affect the overall quality of the game, because things other than gameplay affect it. Atmosphere being an equally important one. This is done mostly through the art style, the use of color, and the music to create the mood. Character design plays into this a lot, and this is how it affects the game.
Nothing to do with gameplay, so you were stupid to even bring it up.
Sonic is fine the way he is, and I like the modern designs. Heck, I always have gotten used to new changes since Sonic and company had this modern design since 1999, and I don’t get why you people want your beloved old designs back.
Sonic is not fine the way he is, and I don’t like his modern design.
Oooooooh ee what I did there?
People want the old design back, because the new one is ugly and inappropriate, and looks like a cross between Bugs Bunny and a ninja turtle. He’s stretched out and lanky, and his eyes are ugly and make him look braindead. He’s got an ugly wrinkle on his forehead, and his quills look like giant blue floppy dicks. Need I go on? I could, but I’ll stop with the descriptions.
It’s ugly and it’s inappropriate. It’s not cool, and it doesn’t fit with the Mickey Mouse-type of cartoony character that Sonic was originally meant to be.
It’s like telling a professional artist to only draw stick figures like little children, and that does not make any sense to me.
That doesn’t make any sense to anyone, but that’s because you’re an illogical buffoon.
The original Sonic style looked nothing like “stick figures drawn by little children”, if anything, it looked like some Japanified Disney cartoons, except with more fantasy and more surreal.
The new one looks like it’s some clueless adult’s idea of what should be hip and cool.
Let SEGA draw whatever they want. Sonic’s their thing, not ours. We’re just fans and nothing more.
That’s stupid. We should complain if they don’t deliver what we want; that is the only way to get it. Sadly, people like you prefer to just like anything no matter what, and since you lethargic clowns are in the majority, no progress can ever get done.
(I have nothing against SatAM, I like it, don’t get me wrong, but people shouldn’t treat it as something that’s better then the games)
It sure as hell is a crapload better than the modern games, at the very least, so that’s what people should treat it like, regardless of how butthurt that makes you.
It has better (and better looking) characters, a more epic plot, better writing, is funnier, and the voice acting is lightyears beyond even the best we’ve had since 1999.
So yes. People SHOULD treat it as if it was better, because it is. It’s better, and made by smarter people, who actually understood what type of character Sonic is, and what kind of plot is appropriate for the series.
Ugh, nostalgic whiners sure annoy me sometimes.
Except that it has nothing to do with nostalgia, and you’re just throwing that around as an insult because you’ve got no better argument to dish out.
If anybody is whining, it’s you new-school fanboys or lethargic pansies who pretend like everything is always equal no matter what and we should love everything equally.
Or other stupid bullshit like that.
Give me a break, people with intelligent complaints aren’t the problem, you are.
@TruthWarriorX: If you’d get Classic Sonic’s dick out of your mouth for a moment, you’d see that Sega is not going to regress 20 years just because you bitch and moan about the character design. Vulpine is kinda missing the point on this article, but he is right about one thing: Sonic’s character design has never affected the gameplay in the franchise, and never will. If you’re going to continually bitch about Sonic being slightly taller and having green eyes instead of focusing on the gameplay, which is ALWAYS the most important aspect of a game, then you’re just making yourself look like a spoiled little man-child.
Maybe if you’d take PoopiEclipse’s dick out of your mouth and actually re-read what you said, you’d realize that you missed the point just as badly as Vulpine did.
Sonic’s character design has never affected the gameplay in the franchise, and never will.
It’s in my first paragraph. Nobody was talking about the gameplay. So you’re a god damn moron for bringing that up.
If you’re going to continually bitch about Sonic being slightly taller and having green eyes instead of focusing on the gameplay, which is ALWAYS the most important aspect of a game, then you’re just making yourself look like a spoiled little man-child.
I guess you’re just too stupid to understand that gameplay isn’t what we’re talking about. Modern Sonic’s gameplay sucks. WE KNOW THAT, so unless you wanna keep making a god damn moron of yourself, stop trying to change the topic.
Sonicf*gs continually act like they’re all mature because they don’t care about anything except the gameplay. Maybe if you stopped and took just a second to think about it, you’d realize that this really only serves to expose their shitty standards and lack of taste and common sense.
This discussion is about atmsphere, which is equally important as gameplay, and is affected by things like music, background art and character design. For certain genres, especially platformers, adventure games and RPGs, a shitty atmosphere kills the game just as badly as shitty gameplay would’ve.
Not that the gameplay in sonic games is any good, but we all know that already (those of us who possess a brain), so there’s no point in continually bringing that up. Unless you’re an idiot and your arguments suck, and changing the topic is all you can do to try and diverge the attention away from your opponent’s well made point.
Sega is not going to regress 20 years
Strawman, nobody is asking anything even remotely like that.
Modern Sonic was not an evolution or an update, he WAS the regression. Changing it to something more akin to the older style, yet new, like this:
http://img.youtube.com/vi/dggz8HbtFe4/0.jpg
would be a step forward, not backward.
If you’re going to continually bitch about Sonic being slightly taller and having green eyes
Shitty attempt at trivializing the major difference between the hideous game-ruining modern design and the excellent classic designs.
@TruthWarriorX
Why don’t you go away and get out of this site already? You’re a troll. Deal with it.
Heck, according to what I have seen while typing ‘TruthWarriorX’ on a search engine it looks like you trolled enough that you even got banned on one forum that you went to because you broke the rules or something. Way to miss the point, snotbutt. No one cares about what you say about me nor anyone else that you reply to (especially if you cuss and say really awful things about me or anyone else). You know why? Because you’re not nice, you’re disrespectful, and you are nothing but an obnoxious giant trollface. Shame on you.
I’m not a problem here, I’m an intelligent folk who actually know what’s right for the series, unlike you. And to be honest, your views on Sonic is not going to help SEGA improve the series. The chances are that they probably are not going to listen to a troll like you, and they might ignore you instead. I said this before: Character designs do not affect the quality, and the modern designs are not bad. Heck, some people like the modern designs (I do, so where is the crime in that?). If SEGA wants to keep using the modern Sonic designs, let it be. Deal with it.
Also, Sonic is not going in the way of Disney. No matter how much you want it to be, it’s not going to happen, and the truth is that Sonic is a video game icon, not some pop-culture icon nor cartoon icon that morons like you want him to be.
@Amuro
Actually, I’m not missing the point since I always read the entire article before posting any comments here on TSSZ. I am sorry if you think that way. I try to stay on topic as much as I can, but it’s hard when this troll (TruthWarriorX) comes in and bothers me every second that I post here. Don’t listen to him, just ignore him whenever he posts (Which I try to do but he keeps being persistent, and I don’t like that), because I’m a nice folk that does not mean any harm and is trying to help the Sonic franchise improve for the better.
@TruthWarriorX
God, you make me mad. Why don’t get off this website and stop calling me stupid (and saying bad words)? Everyone knows that you’re a troll who never tells the truth, and that everything that you say is pure false, not right. So please, do me a favor, stop trolling me and everyone else, here. We want TSSZ to be a flame-free website, and your trolling is not worth it. Be nice or just shut up.
God you’re dumb, why don’t you leave? Everybody knows that you bever have anything good to say, and keep saying bad words?
We want an intelligent website, and your stupidity is not nice. You’re dumb, deal with it or leave. God.
@TruthWarriorX
Just shut up and go away.
Only when you stop saying dumb stuff.
@TruthWarriorX
Do you realize how awful you have been acting these days? It makes you no different from some bad folk who interrupts a peaceful conversation with ignorant profanity that will turn it into an argument. People don’t want to be around you when you’re like that. So do me a favor, stop using cuss words and say awful, disgusting things about me or anyone else here. We all know that the admin does want TSSZ to be a flame-free website, and I suggest that you stop your ongoing tantrums and accept the fact that different people are entitled to their different opinions on the Sonic series. I don’t say dumb stuff you moron. Stop thinking people who don’t agree with you as stupid or dumb. The chances are that we’re more intelligent then you and that you’re the one who is acting dumb and stupid. Calling someone like me dumb and stupid is insulting, and that is wrong. Not only that, but you also cut and paste other peoples’ writing and replace some with your own words, and worse is that some of the things you have said are just sick (EEEWWW), and you should be ashamed of yourself for saying stuff like that.
I’m an intelligent being, and I actually read the entire article before I post my own comments here on TSSZ. I have a life: I play video games, I read, I write, I exercise to stay in shape, I do all those nice wonderful things that have nothing to do with the bad things that you say. And I’m also nice to people and use proper grammar unlike you who happen to be the typical Internet troll. Heck, even other people see you as a troll because of what you say on various websites you go to, and how you behave and write. Not only you sicken me, but you sicken everyone. We don’t need this kind of behavior. You should be ashamed of your behavior. Honestly, if you can’t be nice, then you should never be on the Internet at all. At least I know how to be respectful and kind to others, which is something you would never do, anyway.
Sonic’s modern design is not a bad thing, okay? He is fine the way he is. Heck, even if SEGA were to bring classic Sonic back, it will look more like this:
http://images.wikia.com/archiesonic/images/1/1b/Sth226_650.jpg
And not the version from the cartoons. How Sonic should be, or should look, is SEGA’s decision, no one else’s. Even I realize that. SEGA owns Sonic and can do whatever they want with the series, and how it should go. But the highest chances are that SEGA might stick with Sonic’s modern design, either that or just keep his green eyes and detailed shoes found on his current look at least. Just because you don’t like it does not mean that other people feel the same. SEGA has used this new design since 1999, yet idiots like you still complain about it. Seriously, all the nostalgia-blinded fanboys like you are trying to prevent Sonic from progressing into the future. If you keep complaining about it, then you are not going to be happy.
Just face it. As much as you want Sonic to follow the essence of SatAM and pleasing the Kingdom Hearts fans and nostalgic whiners who like Sonic, it is not going to happen.
And we know that, because SEGA has made it clear that they’ll keep using Sonic’s modern design whenever they want, whether you like it or not. Everyone should all be happy that SEGA has learned from their past mistakes and know what to do when making future Sonic games nowadays. Sonic Colors is one of the most quality and best-selling Sonic games of the new generation, and is an improvement from other recent games. So why the heck would you hate games like that? They’re not atrocities like you think they are. Character designs and voices do not affect the quality of Sonic games. Gameplay does. And you should be happy that the gameplay has improved in new games like Sonic Colors, rather then not fixing any remaining bugs before release *cough* Sonic 2006 *cough*. Over the last twelve years, Sonic has evolved for the better. Get over it and deal with it.
And excuse me, this may be my last post on this article because I want this flame war to end. I’m sick of arguing, and I want this whole argument to stop. Now would be nice. When I say “enough”, I mean enough.
and I suggest that you stop your ongoing tantrums and accept the fact that different people are entitled to their different opinions on the Sonic series
Talk about stupidly missing the point, AGAIN.
I know that people have different opinions. That’s why I’m pointing out when they are wrong. If they were all the same, or were all correct, OBVIOUSLY I woudn’t have to do that. Please stop posting nonsensical lectures if you don’t even know what you’re talking about.
I don’t say dumb stuff you moron.
Yes you do, and I’ve already pointed out where and why, so I won’t bother to do it again, since it’s right above your post.
Stop thinking people who don’t agree with you as stupid or dumb
Strawman.
People who’s opinion is clouded by fanboyism are dumb.
People who can’t defend their arguments after it’s been picked appart, yet continue to blindly cling to it, are dumb.
People who go on boring whining-fests and BAWWW their eyes out instead of producing real intelligent arguments are dumb.
People who continually misrepresent what their opponent says are dumb.
None of those have anything to do with “because they disagree with me”. So you’re dumb.
Calling someone like me dumb and stupid is insulting, and that is wrong.
It’s not an insult when it’s true.
Not only that, but you also cut and paste other peoples’ writing and replace some with your own words, and worse is that some of the things you have said are just sick (EEEWWW)
It’s called making an analogy to make you view your stupidity from a different point of view, but I guess you’re too stupid to understand that, so nevermind. Also, I haven’t said anything sick. At all.
At least I know how to be respectful and kind to others
Even if that were true, it’s not worth much if you can’t say anything that isn’t horribly stupid. Stupidity is also offensive.
Sonic’s modern design is not a bad thing, okay? He is fine the way he is.
No, he’s an ugly, stretched out, disproportionate mess with an ugly face, braindead eyes, a jellybean for a torso, and dicks on his head.
Heck, even if SEGA were to bring classic Sonic back, it will look more like this:
That’s ugly as hell, and can not be called classic by any stretch of the imagination. Taking the hideous modern design and throwing in some random classic features is kind of like putting a piece of shit in a bowl and adding ice cream on top. It’s still disgusting.
How Sonic should be, or should look, is SEGA’s decision, no one else’s. Even I realize that.
What a stupid and pointless statement. Even you shoudl realize that you’re only saying that because you’re a little pussy who’s resignated to accepting any shit Sega can dish out no matter how bad it is.
Just because you don’t like it does not mean that other people feel the same.
I never said anything even remotely like that, so that’s another pointless statement.
Sega has been using this crappy design since 1999 because idiots like you are stupid enough to like it despite the fact that it’s horribly hideous and disgusting.
Sonic colors is one of the most overrated attrocity in recent memory. Character designs and voice acting greatly affect the immersion factor of a game and therefore the quality as well. Gameplay does as well, and sadly, this aspect is not any better than the above ones. Sonic has kept going downhill steadily for the last 12 years, and will continue to do so because of little shit eating pricks like you.
And excuse me, this may be my last post on this article because I want this flame war to end. I’m sick of arguing, and I want this whole argument to stop. Now would be nice. When I say “enough”, I mean enough.
Good riddance; if you didnt want a flame war, you shouldnt have started one to begin with. I shall be happy to be rid of your idiocy.
You are an idiotic being; you have no life, and can not produce any statement of any value whatsoever. You are lower than a bacteria, and everything that is wrong with this franchise is your own fault, and the fault of people like you.
I’m just glad TWX is off this site. Adios, nicochi!