In-Depth: Time Constraints In Sonic Games

47 Comments

1. I am perfectly fine with a game being delayed or taking a while. I just want to hear about the game or know of its existence.

   1. We did learn of its existence. Last July. We heard about it. Last July.

      But it is rather strange that we haven’t at least gotten a more recent press release or something from SEGA about the game.

2. “the Sonic brand had an anniversary year that came and went without a main series title”

   So if sonic 1 was released on dec 31st would an anniversary game have to be released on that day?
   The point is, mania is the 25th-anniversary game, Aaron and other officals have confirmed it.

   1. Um, nowhere did I deny that it was. I simply said an anniversary title didn’t release that year. You’re putting words in my mouth.

3. Scrap Brain Act 3 was brilliant for it’s times, it helped make the game world feel more connected which would be developed more in 3&K’s zone transitions, it’s also subversive because it’s sending you back to the level that most players dread right as they think they’re at the climax, sure Scrap Brain is difficult but you aren’t constantly under the pressure of a ticking time bomb.

   I still think blaming all of 06’s problem on being rushed is shortsided, all the 3D Sonics Sonic Team made before that were plagued with control problems and the game is filled with so much idiotic bloat that should have been scrapped and had that gained time spent on the meat of the game but again that’s another of trademark of 3D Sonic Team.

   1. You mean like the overuse of Wisps and rehashing of stages but with even worse design like in Colors? Oh wait, it’s other characters obviously, that’s why we have like ten different wisps that control like garbage.

4. Until Sonic Mania & Project 2017 are released, I still consider SEGA as one of the most problematic company I’ve ever known. Divisions conflicts, critically rushed developments & bad business decisions are the reasons why.

5. Taking long or not, I just don’t want a half-hearted rehash of Generations. Lost World took a good while after Generations, yet it’s plauged with so many bad decisions. (tbh, the wisps have to be far worse than any mechanic intoduced into the series thus far)
   I just want confirmation that this game isn’t going to just be Generations the second with any other character that isn’t Sonics. Take as long as you want, just give me more than what Lost World, Colors, and Generations have given us.

   1. As I said in the article, I’m not blaming time constraints soley for SEGA’s problems. It was a significant contributor, but not the only one.

6. While I agree completely with the article… Wasn’t Flying Battery moved so Sonic & Knuckles would have more levels while not being locked- on Sonic 3? The mid-boss exist fully in Sonic 3, and it has its Levels select art done, and can be somewhat accesed with Game Genie.

   1. Nope. I don’t see anything on that motive. As for stuff you mentioned that was left over? The source I cited brings it up. It was intended.

      Polishing up the six levels, the idea came as to how the two halves of the game would be presented. The first half, simply titled Sonic the Hedgehog 3, would be a game that could be standalone. However, inside the code for the game were numerous pointers and leftover data from the second half, placed there for a specific reason.

7. The comments I see here are just…unbelievable. How can you be that inconsiderate?

   1. I don’t recall anyone being rude or vulgar here. They are just sharing opinions on the (mis)management and (mis)direction of SEGA as a company. Just agree to disagree, move on, and don’t take it personally. It is a critique of choices and consequences of a publicly traded corporation, which is standard practice and acceptable behavior. Just like you, everyone is entitled to his or her opinion.

      1. “I don’t recall anyone being rude or vulgar here.”

         It is pretty rude to not show even the slightest amount of sympathy to the devs for all they put through in an effort to make a product to entertain you, just because “SEGA’s a business”. As I explained in the article, devs overworked frequently during the crunch time, some in awkward working conditions. Some even got ill and one nearly died because of the massive workload and stress SEGA was putting on them. And yet, none of that matters? Because “SEGA is a business”? Really?

         I don’t care how much of a business SEGA is. Business doesn’t mean you should throw basic human decency out the window.

         1. Wrong lens, Donnie. That is the company’s fault and their responsibility to treat their employees fairly and appropriately though I feel incredibly awful for the turmoil they had to pass through. We are not speaking of individuals here but what a company promised to its customers. You have it completely wrong and backwards. If a company is unwilling to hire enough and offer enough benefits to keep its employees well and taken care of, look first to the executives and board of directors who ultimately control deadlines and answer to the stock holders. Hold them accountable, and that is what we mean or is implied in these cases. Exempting a company because of poor mismanagement that hurts customers and employees alike is also morally wrong if you want to speak from that perspective. Look at it through that lens, Donnie. Not through the lens of devs but management. That is what I and most mature adults mean, at least. If you are speaking of the immature man-children in the IGN forums who don’t have an ounce of respect or decency and poke fun at and lambast devs, that is a different story. I know. I have a few friends who have graduated and now work at Blizzard and another game company and they can handle and critique other companies for poor product launches with this understanding in mind like many did above. You are overthinking it if you are completely immobilized from critiquing a company for poor execution and poor products. Without constructive criticism, there would be no progress. Unfortunately, in large companies, eventually some people are hurt and mistreated but this is certainly not the norm. While I think it is incredibly important you bring up this point, you must realize someone in the company did not account properly for team size and time constraints. If there were a way to roll back the clock, many of us would love to donate to injured parties or persons and advocate their cause before their executives. But such is life. Live and learn.

            1. “You have it completely wrong and backwards.”

               How? People nearly died making this game. And all you see is how this impacts your game quality standards from SEGA. I’m not talking about SEGA as a whole, anyway. I’m talking about the devs they put in charge to make the game. Not a single ounce of sympathy given towards them.

               This isn’t about “criticism”. I literally wrote this entire article criticizing SEGA for treating the devs like this, anyway. This about common human decency. Something that seems to be lacking.

         2. Then there should be no problem with us offering criticism about SEGA’s games here as I explained. I understand your heartfelt, well-meaning concern, but I don’t need someone theorizing or saying what can’t and can be said when I have been in the crucible of affliction in a similar industry. I have seen this happen before in the AnandTech threads from well-meaning teenage enthusiasts who don’t want the design engineers’ “precious feelings” hurt but we don’t need their sympathy pains. Just let us know what you do and don’t like and, sparks and frictions regardless, we take it all in stride. We are so passionate about what we do that it IS our lives that the worst idiots’s words cannot annul or amend. And friends of mine who are in the game industry, as I mention elsewhere in this comment section, would say just the same. Make sense? 🙂

            1. “I have seen this happen before in the AnandTech threads from well-meaning teenage enthusiasts who don’t want the design engineers’ “precious feelings” hurt but we don’t need their sympathy pains.”

               It’s more than just “precious feelings”. What part of “they got sick and nearly died” do you not understand? That’s not “precious feelings”, and quite frankly, that really speaks volumes if near-death experiences are just “precious feelings” to you.

               And, again, this has nothing to do with criticism. This has nothing to do with SEGA as a whole.

8. It should not be forgotten that SEGA is a company. And that is will try by all means to make money. And the best time to make money is during the festive period, from where a deadline for the devellopers. Giving more time to release a game is risky, because it would mean that there is no cash back, for a year or more, because the game is still developing. I understand that SEGA want to grow. But by pressing the devellopers like lemons it does not give good results.
   Personally it would not bother me to be patient as a Sonic game comes out. But I do not want it to tarnish the business in itself.
   I would go so far as to say. If CrownFunding is required for a sonic to be devolleper longer and have better results. It does not bother me at all.

   1. See, here’s the cool thing about “festive periods”: if you miss one, there’s another one coming up next year! There’s one EVERY year! Christmas is a cyclical burden that you just can’t get rid of. 😉

      Honestly, I’m sick of people trying to justify business decisions like this. I realize you were trying to be even-handed here, but….there are some things you just can’t put business before, without just being a terrible person. Sega nearly killed a dude, for crying out loud! Professional game developers already work insane enough hours without being thrown under the bus by clueless executives slapping deadlines on projects without understanding the situation. Frankly, if Sega is in such a dire situation that they can’t wait out the development cycles that their games sorely need, then they’re idiots who shouldn’t be allowed to handle money in the first place…

      I love (some of) Sega’s IPs so much, but I fully confess: I don’t like Sega themselves.

      1. There’s most certainly room to blame SEGA for putting their devs through all of this. It was uncalled for, and it showed just how inconsiderate SEGA has been in the past.

         1. PS: As an example of my understanding, I was the one who personally authored the thank you note that was subsequently signed by about a hundred or so fans at Change.org and sent to Stephen Frost when he was let go a year or so ago. I totally understand and can emphasize with the pain and duress they go through and wish them the best. 🙂

         2. *emphasize=empathize

   2. The only thing that they need to do is bring back other elements.

9. Nice article, especially now after such a long period of timewithout news XD

   Sega taking its time with their next games is the main reason I’m still hopeful for Sonic’s future, there was no major Sonic release last year, Sega easily could have rushed Mania for a December release in 2016 but they sacrificed those sales (and missing the Anniversary year release) in order to improve said game, that speaks volumes to me considering Sega’s history.

   Same thing with Project 2017, so far I’m liking the direction the story is taking (except for the inclusion of Classic Sonic again), hope we get to see a little bit of gameplay at SXSW later this month, as some mentioned I’m hoping is not just ‘Sonic Generations 2’, and if it is I’m hoping they have improved upon the formula, adding more 3D open segments, more gimmicks and abilities, multiple playable characters, etc.

10. I could handle a slight delay, as long as they spend it working hard on the game. I think that’s one of the reasons why Sonic has had some bumps, because they always try to rush it, and it can lead to some problems (case in point, Sonic Next-Gen and Sonic Boom: Rise of Lyric).

11. The problem isn’t that they had deadlines. The problem is that they had deadlines and didn’t care what happened with them. It was all or nothing with them.

    “You guys are falling ill from working on this? Deadline remains.”
    “One of you went to the hospital and may be on the verge of dying if you keep this up? Deadline remains.”
    “You guys aren’t finished with the game yet? Deadline remains.”

    Business is one thing. Common human decency is another.

    1. Yeah they do have deadlines for other sonic titles, but it’s not like we can rush the development of a sonic game.

    2. Donnie, a company being mismanaged does not exempt customers from offering feedback. In addition, conditions of the past do not apply to the conditions of the present. Each is their respective time and circumstance. Also, most mature game developers can take critique. Many computer engineers like myself have had to work crazy 100 hour+ weeks (4 AM circuit layouts FTW!) but we love hearing critique. It means people still care and while some may be less than thrilled and lacking in respect, it is much better than customers who have nothing to say at all because it means you have no customers at all! Different industry (computer engineering), but same general concept in mind!

12. I like Sonic, and many Sega IPs. But, I do not really like Sega as a company. As for Sonic 06… regardless of if the game would’ve been good or bad if not rushed, I would’ve respected Sega if they atleast had the decency to patch the game. Good game or not.

13. You know, SEGA make crazy sonic games. Sonic 06 was a little dark but it failed. It wasn’t a good sonic games. SEGA is thinking about there mistakes in there previous years. They have to prove themselves that they will keep the sonic series going.

14. “Lowered specs” What’s that exactly?

    As for Sonic Mania and Resistance, I’m glad that they aren’t being rushed out the door quickly (at least I hope not!). Short development cycles is what has lead to the downfall of the series.

    E3 should have a playable demo of Sonic Resistance, I’m excited to try it out in just a few months! 😀

    1. I think “lowered specs” is a combination of an awkward Japanese translation and SSF1991 being dumb. Naka probably meant “nothing was downgraded/cut for this game”.

       1. How was it me “being dumb”? In fact, what do I even have to do with it?

15. Sonic boom was given a lot of time but the sudden change did effect it. Deadlines are crazy but I believe there should be a firm yet lenient force pushing the devs.

    On the SoA side of thing I have a feeling they let the sonic mania devs go too nutz. I sense a gearbox.

16. “Yuji Naka: There were no lowered specs in this game.”

    Can someone explain me what this means ? Am i an idiot to not get this ?

    1. No, you aren’t an idiot. The author, SSF1991, most likely doesn’t know himself what it means.

       1. No, I don’t know what it means either. But it was an exmaple that helped my case in the article so I figured it’s okay to include.

17. If Mania and Project 2017 end up being successful games because of this seemingly newfound appreciation for development time over deadlines, then Sega will be one step closer to fixing the Sonic franchise.

    The next step after that? Replace Pontac and Graff with better writers. Like, seriously, get rid of these guys. They don’t understand Sonic, they hardly do enough research on him and even then they still half-understand everything about the series, and they can’t write compelling drama, comedy that sticks, or exciting action, even if their Happy Tree Friends show depended on it.

    I’m not saying that I need fan dreams like Shiro Maekawa, Sayako Yoshimura (writer for Unleashed, my fav game), or Ian Flynn…but all three of them alone would be a dream come true! At the very least, get someone who can actually write competently for any tone and genre, particularly for a video game, actually understands Sonic’s history or can at the very least research it much more decently with the care to respect and acknowledge what came before, and can do a lot more for the dialogue than just cheesy one-liners and out-of-character lines.

    I know the debate of gameplay vs story tends to favor gameplay more, but if Sega finally lets developers take the time they need to to make their games great, then it might not even matter too much what the gameplay is (well, maybe a bit, but that goes into debates about which is better, and I don’t want to fall into that right now). The story would be the only thing that would have to be dealt with in an efficient manner if the gameplay is being given the room it needs to in order to refine itself.

    Because you can have both, it CAN be done. You can have a great Sonic game with both good gameplay AND good or at least decent writing. Both can suffer from time constraints, but one can definitely still suffer if you have the wrong writing staff in charge but all the time in the world for the gameplay to be solid.

    I really hope this is just the first step of positive change with how Sega addresses Sonic, rather than just a one-time thing and nothing else.

    1. I just hope that after Lost World and their hand in the script for Shattered Crystal, which I hear is just as bad if not even worse than Lost World, they’ve heard and have them out for this game. Because if this game DOES do well, then everyone will go back to defending them just as they did when Colors came around. Not to mention, the last thing any of us want is a game like this where there’s a supposed resistance and it ends up being just like Lost World where one else is relevant aside from Sonic, Sonic, and Eggman.

       1. They can barely write Sonic and Eggman right, and that’s probably been all that’s been keeping them on-board this whole time. Sega’s expectations are low enough that they’re willing to settle for the bare minimum of “good guy and bad guy are written okay-ish”, while no other character need have any effort put into them. Hopefully they aren’t involved in this project…but I could have sworn I heard they were supposed to be involved in an upcoming project last year, and this is the only other new project we’ve heard about…so…

          Oh god, please at least tell me Alex Hirsch was there to smack them into shape or something. He couldn’t have been at Sega headquarters for nothing, right? Right!? I’m desperate for something to be hopeful about man!!

          1. I felt bad how Pontac and crew made Knuckles actually brainless muscle and not cleverly dumb in Rise of Lyric. In the Boom cartoon, it has been so funny to watch him because Knuckles can play the piano and actually has solved problems and I attribute this to mastermind Bill Freiberger having control over much of this. But Pontac and company made Knuckles fall right into the stereotype of the dumb buff gym-goer who shows no signs of intelligent life anywhere.

             Solution: If the Sonic comic gets the ax over the delays and possible internal mishmash ensuing, SEGA owes it to themselves to hire on these amazing Sonic Archie writers and eject the excess baggage that produces the dumb humor which has only held the series back.

             The current game writers have only hurt the devs by making all their hard work end up looking like one big joke and a laughing stock. Comedy is good, but only in moderation and in the right place and time in a Shakespearean sort of way, like going up for a brief breath of fresh air from the main plot in the story, not smoothering the story altogether and letting the jokes become the driving force of the story.

          2. If there’s one thing I can say positive about Boom’s cartoon, is that Knuckles does have a number of legit funny moments here and there. It’s almost like Ed from Ed, Edd, ‘n Eddy.
             Personally tho, I just wish we’d stop with the idea that “Knuckles is just dumb” to “Knuckles lived his entire life in seclusion so he’s got little idea about the outside world” like it should be. It’s like how in the recent Goku Black arc of Dragon Ball Super where every bit of “comedy” involving Goku was just him being stupid at times where it could have very well cost them their lives. But then again, the Goku Black Arc was just a bad mess in almost every way.

          3. I’d rather NOT have to give up a great comic series for the sake of getting a better game series when we should have been getting both at the same time from the very beginning. But if anything good can come out of anything that bad, then I guess I’ll just hope that no matter what ends up happening down the road, we the fans still ultimately benefit in the end.

             I thought I heard the Goku Black arc was mostly okay except for the conclusion, but I haven’t really gotten to that arc yet, so I’m just going to avoid debating that for now. Point is, yes there are cleverer ways of writing dimwitted characters, you still need to be smart when you’re writing for a stupid character, and even then Knuckles need not be entirely stupid either. It really would be nice to get back to the simply out-of-touch-with-the-outside-world Knuckles, but I guess we’ll have to see how that’s handled going forward.

18. Very true. These deadlines are just not a wise SAM ADAMS decision PERIOD. That’s one thing I learnt too just working yourself to death can lead to health problems that you don’t ever want. I did that nonsense for years and well after losing a few important people in my life and having brush ups with the grim reaper I don’t take life for granite anymore. It both physically and mentally exhausted me to the point that I can’t sleep right anymore on any given day. That’s what that one programmer damn near did. I’m honestly glad they delayed everything as long as they have. I’m hoping and praying they get it right this time. The last few years of this exclusive mumbo jumbo and @$$nine contracts has just left black eyes on everyone let alone wounds to be licking on both Sonic Team & Big Red Button. Might sound extreme but I have a general idea how the corporate culture works. Money talks and the more @$$ you kiss the more B$ happens too. Which is also a very bad thing.

19. That moment when almost everyone here jumps to a conclusion and Donnie had to remind them that they made it up and it never happened… so they find another conclusion to jump to.

    Reading interactions between people here and Donnie sometimes reminds me of interactions between some fans and Mike Pollock. I’m like “Why are they still responding to each other? O:” lol

    I don’t say this in a mean way or anything. I have a friend who does this everyday. It’s freakin funny. XD

    1. I’m used to it, at this point. lol

       People seriously need to stop making assumptions and actually read.

Comments are closed.