9th Circuit Upholds Penders/Sega/EA Case Dismissal

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1. The Pendermen say: ~*whispers*~The characters we knew he tried to save but by his pen they will die again.

   Do you hear the Pender Men?…the pender men are near…
   if you hear the pender men then turn away your ear…
   do not hear the pender men what ever else you do,
   for once you’ve heard the pender men they’ll stop and look at you!

   Goodnite everybody…a day of fixing computers has turned my brain into mush! I won’t remember saying any of this come 11 AM tomorrow morning.

   1. Pender Man,
      Pender Man,
      Does whatever a Pender Man does…

      1. Can he swing,
         From a web?
         No he can’t,
         He’s a pig.

         …

         I mean Pender.
         Look ouuuuuut,
         Here comes the Pender Man.

2. I just want to put it out there that at some point several months back, Penders himself said that ARCHIE CAN STILL USE HIS CHARACTERS, IT ALL DEPENDS ON THEM. So really, the only reason we haven’t seen any echidnas or otherwise so far is because Archie has no idea how to go forward yet.

   1. Or probably because they have to pay Penders royalties to use them.

      1. That’s probably the case. It looks like this reboot is (basically) just a scapegoat to erase Pender’s characters from existence to avoid paying him royalties and avoid any possible disputes in the future. Hopefully all of this bs is over, but this is Ken Penders we’re talking about here, so of course it isn’t.

         1. That’s exactly what I think, and that’s why I really don’t want him to win the case against Sega/EA too, at least that way Archie could introduce Shade in the comic to take Julie-Su’s place.

         2. i actualy think ken is gona sdtill try to connect his comic tot he arhci ones no matter what. hes trying to make eveyrthing thats happening in the comics now cannon in his comic.
            arhci can easily mess up hsi whole comic. make a charicter to repalce julie-su then do a furture issues to replace lara-su boom lara-su chronicels no longer cannon

3. Hope this case doesn’t hold up, maybe I’m alone in this but I hope we get to see Shade in more games.

   1. Me too. I really wish that when this conflict ends, we will be able to finally get that sequel to Sonic Chronicles. It is a game that really could have gotten more respect for its name if there was a sequel because, I’ll admit, the first one had its very rough edges but nothing disgraceful. All of those problems and more could have been properly fixed, applied, and enhanced to a much better sequel which would have been really shown people that a Sonic RPG can be good, but sadly, SEGA (or Bioware…or EA, whatever) never got the chance.

      1. Agreed, I really want a sequel to Dark Brotherhood, mostly because of the story, I really loved it!

         And thinking about the gameplay I think they should make it with much more action, as a matter of fact when Sonic Battle was released the fisrt thing I thought was “well this isn’t a very good fighting game but it could have been an excellent RPG, with the same core gameplay but with more abilities, stats, equipments, etc.”.

         Also I wonder if Atlus would like to make a Sonic RPG…

         1. I hated that game and was apathetic to Shade but I still want them to finish that damn story off. I didn’t care about anything happening in that game until the last five seconds and then it cut to black. What a rip!

4. Archie cant realisticly use the characters. Without ownership they are a liability, penders can do anything he wants with them including giving them a negative or vulger image. Archie couldnt have there all ages comic connected with another work that could go in any direction. Esspecialy since they are licencing sonic from sega and ultimatly sega wants to control sonics overall image. Plus he could start askinglties later down the road. Really theres just so many thinga that could go wrong esspecialy since penders is sueing ea/sega and archie dosnt own. Wrote this on my phone sorry for typos

5. I’m getting tired of seeing his face and name pop up when will this shit end ?

   1. Well, there’s a few ways it can. The most likely, is that he gets his way like a spoiled little brat often does by throwing a long enough temper tantrum with weak willed parents. Or Sega and EA put him in his place (Not likely, given the result of Archie vs. Penders.) Or he humbles himself, and gives up this childishness. (Given his known personality, and starting the things that lead to Archie filing first in a pre-emptive move, and how full of himself he is, is as likely as someone stopping the tide.) There is another way, but it’s far from kind to say, and I don’t condone the wishing of it on anyone for ANY reason. So in other words, we’re never going to hear the end of it…

      1. KILLING HIM?? alright, so who’s gonna do it?

         1. No killing (or talk of killing) here, please.

            -T

         2. Oi, I knew it would get the wrong response…

            NO! I said I do NOT condone killing him. What I meant was if he dies, which could be a long time or a short time depending on his own health habbits and genes. And even then, I DON’T condone the wishing of death on him or ANYONE. Like Tristan said, no talk of killing him! I had to rewrite my response THREE times because I know the truth of things. And we all know the truth here! So killing him, NO! NO! NO! NO! NNNNOOOOOOO!!! Just because I was trying to voice a possibility without making it sound like I want him to croak doesn’t mean I want him to. I never said I wanted him dead, NEVER!

         3. Sorry T, it was Strike Carson’s idea, -killing him- what were you thinking?

6. All I care about is if the next chronicles will ever be possible again so when this whole issue does end, I would like this to be crystal clear when you explain the outcome; thanks.

   1. Agreed, and the sadest thing is that even before Sonic Chronicles was released the producers where already talking about plans for a sequel, but then Penders happened… well also Bioware got bought and Chronicles didn’t sell much but still.

   2. Amen, a second Chronicles would be fantastic. They could do it on the 3DS. That’d be awesome.

      1. lets contact sega see if they cna make a 2nd chronicels game

7. To Dante Sparda: PLEASE, stop putting words in my mouth. I NEVER said I wanted him dead, I was only voicing a way this could end that we all are thinking about. And even THEN, it wouldn’t stop, because his family would simply take his place. Violence is NEVER the answer in these situations, has never been before, never will be now. So please, don’t say it was my idea, I said quite clearly that I do not condone it. Which, if you’ve never looked it up in a dictionary, means that I do not look the other way. Or rather, I will NEVER support the idea. In fact, I HIGHLY CONDEMN the idea of it. And I am STRONGLY against the idea of wishing death on people. And that goes for anything. If anyone condones the idea of killing, then they’re GUILTY of murder just as anyone who actually does it. So stop, please, stop putting words in my mouth. IF you don’t understand the meaning of the word condone, look it up. Dictionary.com has a complete definition of the word, and I just told you the link, so you have NO EXCUSE to not look it up.

   1. Hahahaha, take it easy pal it was only a joke xD

      1. A joke? You think what you were doing was a joke? I may have a dry sense of humor, but it’s not a joke, and I know when someone is joking. Even Tristan didn’t think you were joking, talking about killing anyone is NOT funny, EVER.

         You got me flipping my lid over something you thought was funny that is not. I may not have much in the way of influence, but believe you me, if Tristan says it’s not a funny joke, then it will not be a funny joke. I’m not laughing, he wasn’t laughing. I can see how absurd this situation is, but the fact is, this is very serious stuff here. We’re talking about franchise futures here, something a lot of people take seriously. And if I can take seriously the fate of a comic book that ultimately is not important in the grand scheme of things, then you bet I take seriously the idea of joking about murder. It’s never been funny in the past, it never will be. To think it is, would make one a sick and twisted individual.

         1. Picture me sick and twisted then, I can’t believe how someone can get that upset about a killing joke (in the internet).

         2. ::Throws hands in the air:: That’s it, I’m not feeding the trolls anymore…

            Tristan, I’ll leave it to you like I should have…

         3. Agreed, you spend way too much time responding to trivialities, don’t you have work or something?

8. I am so sick of Ken Penders being such a turd about all this. He used other people’s characters and ideas all the time. He even called the alternate dimension “The Twilight Zone”, I’m pretty sure that’s copy written. And in his Knuckles comics he had Echidnas riding around in X-Wings and Slave I and other Star Wars ships. The sad thing is, if Star Wars or Twilight zone were to sue over that, they’d sue Archie and SEGA rather than Penders. If SEGA took a page from Kender’s book. they should sue him for making “Evil Sonic” and “Robo-Robotnik” because those are much closer to SEGA’s characters than Shade is to Julie-Sue or than the Mauraders are to the Dark Legion. We know he threw a hissy fit about Ian killing off Locke and making the 25YL non-canon (thank goodness). What we need is someone he respects like Stan Lee to come to him and say “Your ideas aren’t good, get over it” then maybe he’ll stop whining and we can forget about him.

   1. The problem is that he’s so self absorbed that even if someone he respects upfront said that to him, he wouldn’t listen. He’s a man obsessed, and woe be to those who try to stop him from getting what he wants. He got what he wanted from the Archie trial, he’s emboldened now even further. Best thing to do now is to avoid him at all costs.

   2. Amen!
      The Knuckles comics were pretty bad. I remember back in ’97, I bought them every month out of obligation of being a Sonic fan, but I stopped reading them after the 6th or 7th issue because they were so boring. I’ve read them since and they are lame. So much time is spent on characters no one cares about like Locke and Remington and Dimitri, they’re all just Knuckles look alikes and they all stand around and talk. I sure am glad Ian took over the writing.

      1. @sonictoast: Personally, I thought the Knuckles comics were pretty good up until near the end. I enjoyed the first 20 or so issues anyway, but maybe that’s because Knuckles was my favorite character and they were an interesting take on the character (though some of it is pretty painful to read now–wasn’t Locke an Author Avatar for Penders or something?). At the very least, there were decent ideas buried somewhere in those stories, even if they were poorly executed (though “The First Date” storyline can burn).

         espioisclearlyreadytogo brings up an excellent point though; Penders “borrowed” from various sci-fi media all the time for those stories. Hell, there was a three-part series of editor’s notes (I think they were in Sonic #113-115?) by J.F. Gabrie that sung praises for Penders’s “homages” to stuff like Star Wars. And this is what gets me. Why can’t characters like Shade or the Dark Brotherhood be considered “homages” to Julie-Su and the Dark Legion? Why are they considered wholesale ripoffs but Penders was free to do the same thing? I haven’t played Chronicles, but I’ve read that other than being similar in concept, there’s really no connection beyond the surface to Penders’s characters.

   3. This is nonsense. Everyone who contributed to the success of the comic deserves to be recognized. The only one being a “turd” is Archie by exploiting the skills and talents of the writers and artists and refusing to compensate them for reissues. If you love the characters Penders created but blast him for fighting for his rights, that to me is sheer hypocrisy. Some of you on this anti-Ken Penders rant sound like spoiled children. You want your cake and eat it too..and could care less where it comes from, who baked it or why. Obviously his work was good enough for you to be whining over Archie pulling the characters from the book in the first place.

      Sega suing Penders for Evil Sonic doesn’t even make sense. Mr. Penders was authorized to create the characters, just not under a contract to give away his creative rights after doing so.

      1. Even though Evil Sonic is clearly a derivative of the original sonic.

         1. Is Superboy a derivative of Superman? You obviously don’t know the meaning of the word in legal terms.

      2. I don’t think anyone disagrees that people who contributed to the success of the Sonic comic deserves to be recognized. It is important. Hell, I think it’s a bit of a slap in the face for Ian Flynn to get top-billing in the archive books when he had nothing to do with those stories (and I genuinely like what he’s done). That said, the reason people are upset is the way Penders carried out this little crusade of his.

         I don’t think it’s unfair for people to think it’s ridiculous for the man to just pack up his toys and leave everyone else currently working on the comic to clean up his mess (and thus being forced to simply sweep it under the rug–the real losers in this whole argument are the readers). I don’t think it’s unfair for people to think that while Penders believes these characters are wholly original and can stand on their own, their entire existence hinges on a successful property that was never his to begin with. I don’t think it’s unfair to think Penders is being a little hypocritical for accusing SEGA of “stealing his ideas” when many of his own contributions for the Sonic comic are “borrowed” from preexisting sci-fi media. And I sure as hell don’t think it’s unfair to think “Evil Sonic” is nothing more than Sonic in a leather jacket and shades and Penders has a lot of gall to be claiming otherwise.

         I don’t think it’s unfair at all to hold him responsible for basically gutting the comic for his own selfish purposes when he can, and probably should, have been working on something new and original.

         I do believe the man deserves credit because he is partially responsible for the comic becoming what it is today. I think Archie should be cutting him, Gallagher, Bollers, and the rest (as well as all the artists that made it all possible) a check for reprinting these stories that are such an important part of the mythology of the comic. The comic wouldn’t have existed or made it as far as it has without them. But that’s it. They shouldn’t have to shell out for characters that were created for a licensed book when those characters should really belong to the original license holder (SEGA). This isn’t like Dan DeCarlo’s struggle to retain ownership of Josie and the Pussycats or Jack Kirby’s struggles for his own rights that Marvel (who has more than enough money to do something for the man’s estate by now) wouldn’t give him. There’s a big difference between wholly original works and what was simply an expansion of an established property.

         That’s why people are pissed off.

         1. @Solar Unfortunately, since none of this tirade is true, I won’t bother to pick it apart.

         2. First of all, Penders didn’t gut anything. Archie did that. Archie started this whole thing by refusing to pay royalties in the first place. Being pissed because Penders took the the only legal avenue left makes no sense. You’re right, the comic would exist without the writers and artists that made it happen. They deserve to be compensated and Penders did what he had to do, file for protection, in light of the fact Archie slammed that door shut in the beginning.

            What makes Josie and the Pussycats, girl band with a mascot cat, wholly original from the Archies? Archie, the publisher’s track record with DeCarlo and Bob Montana belie your accusation that this case is any different.

            I agree with you that the whole thing is a slap in the face to all the artists, writers and other creators, but disagree strongly with your blaming Mr. Penders for standing up to fight.

         3. @truebluesonicfan No, feel free to enlighten me. And that is not some cocky/snide remark. If you say I’m wrong on all accounts, I’d genuinely like to know what I’m missing. And yeah, maybe I was being a little too vitriolic, but I’m genuinely sick of this whole legal saga.

            Regardless of my position on this whole thing, I can’t deny the comic will likely be able to carry on without Julie-Su and the rest. I’d rather that didn’t have to happen, but if things have to go down this way, well, what can I do about it? Creators’ rights is an interesting topic for me and I’m willing to learn more, but I still don’t think Penders is in the company of people like Kirby in this instance. But that’s me.

      3. @truebluesonicfan
         “Is Superboy a derivative of Superman? You obviously don’t know the meaning of the word in legal terms.”

         Do you? Because right after that remark it would have been a good chance to make a decent rebuttal and strengthen your argument, but you just….didn’t. When you say snarky and/or very flaky general stuff like that, you know you have to back it up with a source and tell us exactly what derivative means in law because oviously (in your mind) you know something we don’t.

9. Oh, really? What a shame.

   1. Sorry. I meant to write that the comic WOULDN’T exist. Typing too fast.

      1. Yes superboy is since he was basically teenage superman.

10. Dunno if he will bother to follow up on this one, as the audio log of a recent hearing on the case released by Penders on his forum seems to suggest (via the judge) that any monetary “damages” would now be moot anyway. Something to do with only being able to file for damages three years prior to filing the suit. And since games and mediums like that make their main profit averaging a couple of months after initial release, that technically by the time he filed the suit the “pot had run dry”, being described as similar to suits regarding gambling. Since it’s pretty much given that all he was after with that one was cash money I imagine we won’t hear too much more about this VS Sega/EA case.

    Interestingly some of the audio also seems to imply that there wasn’t a verdict reached on ownership of the characters in question over the comic row to either party. Archie’s demands to have Penders “ownership” revoked were declined but equally Pender’s counter demands were also quashed. So his puffery about “owning” certain characters seems to be hot air to some digree, unless Archie specifically said here have them we don’t care. Otherwise they are still under both party’s control by the sounds of it.

    1. Tenko, no. your last paragraph is incorrect. Ken owns the characters by virtue of the copyrights. While Archie may say they don’t agree, the truth of the matter is that by declining to oppose Ken’s ownership of the registered copyrights through the courts they effectively confirmed the copyrights were his. So he does indeed “own” and control the characters specified.

       1. I notice that you completely ignore the first paragraph does that mean Tenko had a point with that because according to anyone else who listen to the audio they reach the same conclusion about why any damages he is claiming now would be moot and thus pointless?

       2. I wasn’t talking in hypotheticals, I was merely pointing out the decision of the court on the case in the second paragraph. I notice you didn’t refute what I said the court ruled on the case, so I can only assume as far as we both know I’m on the right track. So Archie declining to go through all this nonsense again does not legally give Penders ownership, just as it doesn’t give Archie ownership because Penders isn’t taking them back to court. Logic like that works both ways if the ruling was indeed neutral.

          By law I imagine the ruling of the court during the last case is currently the “final word” on the ownership rights, more so than the previously filed copyrights as these were the things in contention. So if the court didn’t rule in either party’s favor then both party’s are able to use said characters and no one was given full ownership regardless of the copyrights. Not fighting back does not always a loser make.

11. Hey Tristan is it possible to get a transcript of the hearing I have the link to the audio of it here:

    http://www.ca9.uscourts.gov/media/view.php?pk_id=0000011455

12. Seriously, anyone who hopes a creator gets screwed over because you want to see his characters used without him having any say (and thus being screwed over AGAIN) is a truly broken, spoiled human being.

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