In-Depth: Sonic In The Mainstream Gaming Media
NOTE: Events that have occurred, such as the closing of GameTrailers, make sourcing more sketchy here. Don’t expect as many links as in previous articles. Things are also taken in a more general perspective here, compared to the very specific route I could take in previous articles.
It’s time for another article where I take a moment to go in-depth about a particular Sonic topic. Usually I wait until later in the month, but this one was made early due to recent events. I’ll explain that in a moment.
One thing about the Sonic community that I’ve learned, and something I’ve explained previously, is how passionate they are about their love for Sonic. Fan sites tend to do a fantastic job covering the franchise because of this passion. No matter who is writing articles on Sonic fan sites, odds are they have played a lot of the games and have genuine knowledge on the brand. They’re no expert on Sonic, and neither am I, but they’re at least in a position to cover Sonic in the first place.
Unfortunately, when you leave the Sonic community and observe the gaming media…that mindset changes. The mainstream gaming media is the main source for gaming news, including Sonic. IGN, GameSpot, GameTrailers (when they were still around, anyway), and more are among the “go-to” places. However, these “go-to” places are likely going to leave Sonic fans questioning what is going on. Not because of opinions, but because of so much more. Let me explain.
For almost a decade, Sonic has taken a whole new perspective in the mainstream gaming media. As the quality of Sonic games decreased in the 2000s, then bounced back up in the early 2010s, it seemed that the mainstream gaming media just dropped all journalism standards for Sonic. And this is something that I recall happening since at least 2008.
Sonic Unleashed was the game that served as the tipping point in gaming media:
What you see above is IGN’s review of Sonic Unleashed, the earliest example I remember. It was here when I began to wonder if Sonic was being cast aside like a rag doll for biased reasons. It was here where it seemed reviewers weren’t properly reviewing Sonic games, purposely doing things to make it appear that the game was flawed. It seemed nit-picking was becoming a thing in reviews, along with hypocrisy. But, perhaps, the biggest thing that spread like weeds among the many Sonic reviews that have been published in the last decade? The bias, where the decline of Sonic game quality that occurred in the 2000s is shoved in the face of readers and viewers everywhere, tainting their material. It became the “cool thing” to do, the click-bait tactic to get views. For almost a decade, almost every single mention of Sonic will almost inevitably result in hearing remarks like “Sonic sucks”, “Sonic is dead”, and jokes about Sonic and Elise during Sonic 06 and Sonic fans. Sonic was no longer getting covered in the mainstream gaming media without feeling like they’re opinionated and biased. And at times, you wonder if they even played the game and if they’re telling the truth. Even when the Sonic game quality improved, the argument only grew.
I say the argument grew because, by this point, the increase in quality with games such as Colors and Generations made it harder for news sites to continue the tradition they had started with Sonic Unleashed. They had less of case to make against Sonic, and it showed. Remember the infamous Destructoid review for Colors? But then, as the gaming media sort of retreated with their tail between their legs, in came Sonic Lost World and the Sonic Boom games. The result? To the media, Sonic Colors and Sonic Generations never existed. In came the phase of “Sonic was never good”. GameTrailers began to join the “Anti-Sonic” crowd with Top 10/Top 5 videos, and sites retreated back into the usual anti-Sonic tirades. As I said, GameTrailers joined the crowd. Literally. They said Sonic deserved to die. And they basically said Sonic Lost World is worse than E.T! Yes, that E.T. game, the Atari one. Because “Sonic sucks”. But it has gotten even worse since. Awkward, too.
And if you thought IGN, GameTrailers, and Kotaku weren’t enough, Game Informer has been guilty of baffling Sonic reviews too. All of this leads to an event that happened recently, and it’s why I’m not only writing this article now, but why it’s about this topic in particular:
This video, right here. It has been a day since it went live, and IGN’s “scoop” about the recently announced Sonic Mania and Sonic 2017 project ended up being more of a six-minute long discussion about Sonic sucking. Very little discussion about the announced games themselves. But not only was it that, but now there were inexcusable lies (“Green Hill Zone from Sonic 2”) and absolute misinformation (“all of Sonic Mania’s levels are old remakes”). Worst of all, however, was the talking down of fans for even liking Sonic in the first place, then proceeding to label them as folks who “have sex with Big The Cat”. That was what motivated me to write this, because now we’ve reached the point where the Sonic fanbase itself is being criticized for simply existing. It was now a crime to even like Sonic in the first place. Everything Sonic is bad, including the concept of Sonic having a fanbase. This was the clinching video, the video that had basically showed that the gaming media wasn’t even trying with Sonic anymore.
This doesn’t even count them hating on Sonic Robo Blast 2, a decade old fan game. They inaccurately called it a “Doom mod” and even though they absolutely hate the fan game, they still have to make it clear that this is “better than SEGA’s 3D titles”:
Oh yeah. If you think the whole “Sonic was never good” mindset happened only just yesterday, think again. They literally made a video called “in defense of Sonic” that didn’t defend anything about it. And in just the first two minutes alone the “Sonic was never good” remarks were mentioned.
It’s an aspect of Sonic that has not sat well with Sonic fans. Your opinion of the Sonic games is of no importance when you’re covering Sonic news. I’ve tried to make my news reporting work as unbiased, un-opinionated and as informative as possible. I haven’t been perfect, and the reader base of My Nintendo News would gladly tell you this, but never would I talk down to people like that for simply liking a franchise.
What hurts most of all is that, you can show as little interest in the reviews and videos as you want, but SEGA can’t. The mainstream gaming media is SEGA’s best venue for getting the word out for their content and getting people interested. It’s also how feedback on Sonic games spreads most of all. Why? Because reviewers get the game early. And, unfortunately, there is the crowd who are followers of reviews. This was especially true in the late 2000s and early 2010s. Nowadays, the word of mouth has lessened this somewhat. So when gaming journalists reply with “we didn’t review that Sonic game” as an excuse, it doesn’t make a difference. The staff of that site, including them, approved of that review for their website, and it’s their site’s Sonic game review. Who writes the review doesn’t matter. The site does, and regardless of who wrote it, they represent that site and the content they’re known for. But reviews still play a significant role, and it’s part of the reason why SEGA has been really keeping the main games free from any gameplay that doesn’t involve Sonic as a playable character. Remember the many “crappy friends” complaints that the media would make? Even in IGN’s review of Generations, just the fact that Sonic’s friends were there as mere side characters that you didn’t technically play as received criticism. But a lot of Sonic fans don’t actually seem to mind Sonic’s friends. In fact, quite a few would love to play as them again in a new Sonic game, so long as SEGA does it right.
It’s not the anti-Sonic opinions that are the problem. It’s the lack of professionalism. The blatant disregard for journalism standards that are given to other franchises to make some site traffic. The talking down at people, the poor humor and repeated jokes. The onslaught of negativity and clear bias, regardless of the topic at hand. The snarky jabs for absolutely no reason whatsoever. The nit-picking and excuses. The constant reminders of the “Sonic Cycle”, long after it had even been broken. The hypocrisy, where they’ll criticise Sonic for doing something that other franchises get praise for. The blatant lies and misinformation. The hating on Sonic fans for simply being fans of Sonic. And, of course, the incompetence at showing off a Sonic game and properly reviewing it. It piles up, and it has gone on for almost a decade now. Depending on who you talk to, fans are either unsurprised at a new event of “anti-Sonic click bait”, annoyed, or they simply don’t care. Either way, people seem to feel that Sonic’s portrayal in mainstream media could be better.
This isn’t a defense of bad Sonic games like Sonic 06 or Sonic Boom: Rise of Lyric. This isn’t “fanboying” over how Sonic is always good and it’s perfect. This is a defense of Sonic as a whole, and a criticism of how Sonic is poorly covered in the mainstream media, and how it seems they’re not quite doing the job I would expect them to. I haven’t even gone into the very similar antics of a certain Let’s Play channel that is more so grump than not so grump. However, regardless how mainstream journalism sees Sonic nowadays, it doesn’t change how the community sees Sonic. And that’s with passion. It all boils back to, yet again, the article I wrote for Sonic’s birthday back in June. We care. Unfortunately, it seems we care about doing our jobs of covering Sonic news better than mainstream sites. And even though the gaming media will tell you otherwise, the fact that we are still here talking about Sonic in the first place is all the evidence needed that Sonic has been good in the past, and can do so if SEGA puts in the effort, whether the mainstream media wants Sonic to succeed or not.
This post was originally written by the author for TSSZ News.
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Beautiful article.
IGN failed at the one basic principle of a news site that declares itself as the number one source for gaming NEWS. News comes with truth, not lies. Information comes with facts, not bias. And declaring a video “about the 2 newest Sonic games” and not even bothering to talk about the newest and most promising game just simply because it “Reeks of Werehog?” What the crap is that supposed to mean? I only see two Hedgehogs there thank you very much.
They know what they’re doing and don’t care. As long as this continues news will no longer be informative. On this website the writers label the articles as either “opinions or news.” You know what you’re getting.
I’ve never been so outraged in my entire life at a website. This isn’t what we deserve. We’ve fought tooth and nail against this kind of crap year after year, and what do we get?! “You guys just want to have sex with Big the Cat!”
That’s where I snapped…
And what about the “trial and error” crap! What about the “oh spikes and drowning music and just overall tedious.” Now THAT, is how you play Mega Man, Mario, and even games like Punch Out! and Super Metroid. If the game is too hard for you to beat, just admit it. You can not tell me that the ending to Super Mario Bros. 3, which is a game I enjoy a whole lot, isn’t tedious, doesn’t have botttomless pits, and isn’t trial and error. That’s what built those games and that franchise.
And how is CD the only good Sonic game ever? I get that Sonic games are attached to opinions, but you absolutely CANNOT tell me that 3 and Knuckles, 2, both Adventures, Generations, and Unleashed are all bad games. That’s an outrage.
I can get mixing up the most iconic level in the history of Sonic that’s only been in 3 classic games, 2 modern games, and ripped off countless times.
I can get thinking that a game isn’t great even though an entire fanbase is more informed on a simple “project reveal trailer” because you’re too ignorant to actually watch it.
I can even get that you don’t understand that having a game in developement for over 3 years is technically not only breaking the Sonic cycle, but the cycle that every run and gun shooter that you give a 10 every year consistently follows. Yearly releases are what are ruining franchises left and right, but your checks from Activision keep on coming in so whatever! Give them a 10 and let the facts slide under the table…
Look. IGN. This is MY final verdict on your website.
You take your stupid paid reviews, blatant disregard for the truth, biased reporting, double standards, overall hypocrisy, and your unwillingness to accept that good Sonic games exist and I’ll take my passion and pride for what is in MY opinion, one of the greatest franchises in video game history. Thank you IGN. You’ve shot yourself in the foot. You’ve just outraged the most vocal and absolutely the most passionate Fanbase in all of gaming.
One last thing that I’d like to address that I did not in my comment a while ago, is the hypocrisy.
When a new Mario game comes out, the press praise it for being “innovative”, but Mario games have never changed.
2D Mario has literally no difference besides a few minor gimmicks. Mario doesn’t take risks.
This goes back to what I said on Sonic’s birthday this year: At the end of the day, I’d rather be with the person who hit the highest highs and the lowest lows and overall had the worse legacy because of it, than the one who just stayed in the middle of the road due to the parent company’s stubbornness to change the formula so they can just be called “innovative” again.
This is what’s hypocritical with IGN. They call Mario amazing and great for never changing and when they do it’s always “Amazing” but when Sonic comes in with a new gameplay style or design or anything different from the norm, it is bad.
IGN -“Change and Innovation are the gateway to stupidity.”
Circa 2016
I couldn’t have said it better myself. I never used to care about this sorta thing, but this video pushed me over the edge.
The mere fact that they said the words “Sonic was never great” and keep bringing up “jokes” that are literally 10 years old at this point makes me so furious.
Sonic is a franchise that deserves proper journalism like any other franchise does. Sonic is a friggin’ platformer, so yeah, bottomless pits, spikes, trial and error gameplay, e.t.c are a part of the games. Just like Mario. Just like Mega Man. Just like any game where you control a character with an abnormally high jump and colorful design.
“colorful design.”
Not really what Sonic or Mega Man are about but I see your point
Surprised you didn’t mention the biggest complaint that the IGN Sonic Unleashed review got: the reviewer didn’t even finish the game but didn’t disclose it in the interview itself.
I don’t remember exactly where I heard it from (it was from a major gaming site, probably Kotaku?), but the Sonic CD remake got complaints…because of Tails being playable even though he’s only available to play you actually FINISH the game.
I’d say the goalposts keep getting moved, but the way things are now, I don’t think the goalposts exist anymore.
I had some difficulty finding sources, so don’t be surprised if I had to leave stuff out due to the inability to source it. =P
I think I remember this too. I know I am biased as a Tails fan but that made me so upset. I didn’t want Sega to look at the one review and think, “If we have anyone but Sonic, they will complain”. It is upsetting going 10 years and you can’t even play as the sidekick :/
Tails being playable in Sonic CD is one of the reasons why I brought that version of Sonic CD (and it’s my favorite version of the game). I wasn’t a fan of Sonic CD, but the addition of Tails being a playable character is a must buy for me.
I think the goal posts are on the edges of the ever expanding universe…
I seriously wrote Ziff Media a small letter stating my disappointment with the video, just submitted it. I pointed out the lack of fact checking on easily available facts and dropping journalistic integrity by insulting an entire faction of their visiting public. I figured that if I’m going to get outraged, might as well get outraged at the people who host that show of theirs.
I agree with what you wrote 100%. Outside the fanbase, if I go to school or work and say I like Sonic it becomes a statement where people can bully you. Then the media, like you said goes out to attack Sonic fans. Like I remember Gameinformer said a nasty reply to the people who like the games. Furthermore, I see comments like 90% of Sonic fans have mental disorders. Stuff like that is like a joint bullying session with the media and the commenters.
On a note above, the “annoying Sonic friends” thing irks me to where I think that is the reason we can’t play as anybody but Sonic anymore, and then with Sonic 2017, I personally am frustrated that he is teaming up with himself (I know that this might be unpopular) rather than with Tails or Knuckles or someone.
In fact I think the majority of the fans want someone besides Sonic. On the forums there is high passion to get them back. As long as they are done well. But there is this conflict where the media hates anybody but Sonic.
Thanks for writing this.
Just a reply to say I was a bit puzzled at bringing Classic back for 2017 as well when we have Mania. But willing to wait to see how they justify it. But I would like a return to gameplay variety like Adventure. We also lost Chao because of a perception that people hated them when I think actually quite a lot of players enjoyed the Chao Gardens.
On the fandom perception….to be fair there is a mix, but I know a lot of people “on the spectrum” that do have a special connection with the series. Myself included. I actually don’t mind funposters or people teasing me because I’ve got a condition and happen to like Sonic. I fully recognise and have long accepted I possibly am too passionate about fictional things (and sometimes best way to cope is to be able to laugh and recognise your faults)
It’s a different kettle of fish when people are using it to legit single out or act like because it attracts neurodiverse people, that it’s actually an “awful thing” because of that. In the same way Press has tried to go at Pokemon Go being a bad thing, when it’s actually helped a lot of people with related conditions to go socialise. In the same way I know Sonic helped a lot of people to cope with their conditions in various ways, which is why the series becomes “special” to them. That goes for people with conditions, shitty family life, getting involved with the community even in spite of all the drama ect.
Amazing job, Donnie. The large amount of poor, lazy journalism regarding this series is astounding.
This is a great article!, you did an excellent job explaining all this whole thing about Sonic and the unfair treat he recieves by the official gaming media.
The Passion, you’re a totally right, it’s the passion what makes Sonic be still alive! Sonic is my passion and no one else can change that.
I’ve never took others point of view as my priority to try any Sonic game, i prefer to take the desition by myself, we must first
allow it to try and look it deeply before judging if it is good or not.
As i Sonic fan, i’ll be always waiting with joy and not as a disgusting ugly hater!
I want to live happy, if i spend my time to raise hate, what kind of person am i? why don’t we try to make it better than worst?
C’mon!, don’t be a turd person!
Excellent job on this article, i’m grateful to know there is passionated people around the world like you!
I haven’t read any comments yet so I don’t know if this was already posted, but in this recent video IGN did, one of the guys flat out said that Sonic 1 was a bad game, no joke. They also said that Sonic was never any good. Here it is.
Yeah, it’s already posted. This is why Donnie wrote the article.
It would help if I actually read the article first, too 😀
Should I just leave this here?
https://twitter.com/sonic_hedgehog/status/625804509382619136
Don’t talk down to people who enjoy something you don’t; stereotyping and labeling fans is going to get you nowhere. We need more love and appreciation than blind hate and actual intolerance. Great article.
Oh absolutely, I’d love for Aaron and the Sonic Twitter to take a “one-two-jab-uppercut” on these IGN barking hounds!
Might I remind you of this little burn…
https://twitter.com/sonic_hedgehog/status/745311041987371008
Sonic: My review of a game review sit.
Things you’ll like:
+Accidentally Hysterical
Things you’ll dislike:
-Can’t play games
-Aren’t funny when trying
-Frustratingly disrespectful humans
-Sketchy
-Misrepresentation
Final Score: 0/10
“You read correctly,
that’s zero out of ten!
Because you can’t spell ignorant,
without……..”
Review SITE! Wow I shoulda waited until I wasn’t limited to a cell phone. XD
https://twitter.com/sonic_hedgehog/status/625804509382619136
The thing is – I kind of understand some of the offhand reporting from 06 to Unleashed. 06 was terrible – there’s no getting around that, it was a rushed buggy mess with a plot that just didn’t work.
But Unleashed isn’t actually a bad game, take out Werehog and you have a fairly decent Sonic title – the Warehog section had it’s fans too. Colours was amazing, as was Generations. Really the only failures after 06 were Sonic 4 and Sonic Boom – and both of these titles are the sum result of outsourced development.
Most Sonic fans will be very honest about 06, Sonic 4 and Boom. That they had high hopes and were ultimately dismayed when the game turned out to not really shape up like it should of done. There are precious few that would actually say they like them (and if you do, fair game to you, but they were still badly planned and developed)
It stuns me when people act like OC’s and smut are exclusive to this fandom when almost every fandom has something of an adult bent if you look hard enough. Nothing wrong with it, people all have their kinks, it’s not really a games media matter to address.
Also lol Big the Cat is like a community joke, it’s hilarious when games press takes it *that* seriously. I kind of am beyond caring because outside a few select sources. There’s been multiple occasions where it’s clear games press hates the gaming community with a force of a thousand suns or hardly understands they game they are talking about.
I have faith in Sonic Mania. It might suck but considering the quality of the fandom output in recent years. I can’t see the same mistakes being repeated. But I’m not going to let some mook at IGN dictate how I should feel about it. Nor should anyone else, let’s enjoy this – rather than letting outsiders get us down.
I think the official Sonic twitter said it best
“Opinions are great, and we respect yours, but don’t call people delusional for enjoying a game. Give respect to get it. #realtalk”
Seriously, I’ve had enough of these cynical people who think it’s okay to talk down to others just because they like something and think that they’re being funny but are just really obnoxious. If you see something you love being dragged through the mud, then you’ll stand up for it – it’s human nature to share the things you like. Great article.
whoops did I just post twice?
Amazing article, Donnie. But jesus christ, I didn’t need to see that shit show of a video today. It’s painfully cringy and desprate whenever these sites try to pass off opinions as facts, like the tidbit about how “Super Mario World clearly, and factually, aged much better than Sonic 1,” seriously?
While Sonic 1 hasn’t aged particularly well, I’d argue that Super Mario World, and all the 2D Mario games, have aged worst than Sonic 1. Playing Super Mario World particularly feels like a drag and I can’t even get through the first few levels of the game without feeling like I’m gonna pass out. Is this a fact? No.
So why base the merits of an entire franchise, on your opinion, or lack thereof, for 1 game? Would calling Mario Galaxy 2 a shitty game because I disliked 64 or because Super Mario Bros. aged horribly be fair? Fuck IGN.
Man, that Game Scoop video really grinds my gears, but you know what? We can really fight back against the media stereotyping now. And the media has to bend over backwards to keep their “Sonic sucks” status quo.
The main reason is Sonic Mania. Sonic Mania is literally Sonic 4 as we truly imagined it. In fact, it is so good and so faithful to the Genesis games that media outlets have to resort to not only lying about the game itself, but they have to say that the Genesis games were bad too. Sure, the media can bash Project 2017 with overgeneralizations and borderline-misinformation, but they literally can’t bash Sonic Mania without losing credibility as either journalists or gamers, and I think that’s going to really irritate them in the coming months.
Yeah, I have noticed the outright misinformation that has been surrounding the recent games.
Heh, I imagine they’d stuck with Classic purism, thinking that Sonic could never do anything like the Classic era ever. But here comes Sonic Mania, to serve as the wrench in the works.
There’s definitely going to be some foot-in-mouth antics in the coming months. Get the popcorn, because mark my words, this is gonna get hilarious.
I couldn’t watch some of the videos at the moment, so I can’t say much on that, but I mostly agree with what you’re saying.
I think there should be a site specifically for un-biased Sonic reviews and showing SEGA what fans want from the game. Maybe SEGA could look at that if somebody makes it.
This beings more stupid everyday. I’m a critic about games. My main critics were about Sonic since Adventure 2 (except Colors and Generations). But now, Sega returns the mainstream! The classic Sonic with new stages, 32x environments, the awesome Drop Dash to change Dash Pad and the awesome level design size from Sonic CD. Actually, midia sux about Sonic franchise. =/
there’s a few things about that: the fact that people as famous as Game Grumps who, for all i know, don’t have /serious/ opinions, can spark bad opinions in people who haven’t touched a Sonic game in their life, is part of the problem. Rather than play to get their own opinions, they would ride on whatever things the players who are going out of their way to get laughs, even at the expense of the game’s reputation.
I completely agreed with you, Donnie.
Bringing up Game Grumps in an article, even offhandedly complaining about game journalism kind of muddies the issue since Let’s Players aren’t d oing what they’re doing to report news, they’re entertainers.While a lot of people form opinions on a game, especially ones they don’t intended to play, based on Let’s Players and simply parrot their opinions, the Game Grumps and most Let’s Players AREN’T game journalists. There’s no set standards that Let’s Players have to follow compared to journalists of any kind. The impact that Let’s Players can have on public opinion of Sonic or any other game brand is another topic of discussion. Game journalists willingly misrepresenting a brand doing no research and often making unnecessarily hurtful and inaccurate statements about people is different from Let’s Players having very strong opinions about something that are later parroted as fact.
I made it as sort of a passing reference for a reason. =P
The Guy who did the Sonic Unleashed Review for IGN, from what I gathered from some quick research seems to dislike the 3D Sonic games, as he praised Sonic 4 Episode 1 and in the review he did for Sonic Mega Collection Plus in the verdict part he said “These games, though old, are superior to Sega’s more recent 3D Sonic offerings.” with the more recent one at the time being Heroes, in which it might imply that he dislikes 3D Sonic completely.
Now I don’t know why he was asked to review the game, as I don’t really pay attention to how websites review the games for the most part, such as if there are people who review certain genres of games for a certain console, since I assume they have their teams and then someone does the review for the game or in other cases, another person from another team.
Also, not defending IGN here, but other websites are also know for hating on Sonic Friends, ie GamesRadar, they had a list of worst Sonic Characters and also seemed to call all/most of his friends crap and other words other times in other articles like Annoying Characters and Cutesy Characters we would kill. Most of the hate seems though aimed at Tails though generally (They even contradicted themselves one time where they said the Multiplayer in Sonic 2 is fine in the 2D Sonic games re-reviewed, but in another article that I can’t remember what its called, they said no one wanted it, though I remember that they said his full name is the worst pun/name ever in the part where they said).
Anyways, sorry for rambling on, but I will say that the Game Scoop video was rather disrespectful to people who like sonic, and as someone who likes most of sonic friends, I really would like them playable again, even if its like the Sonic CD Remake where you can only play as them after beating the game. We also need more serious people when it comes to Sonic related stuff, be it reviews or game play.
Great to see my content brought up in this thread!
This was a good comment until you brought politics in.
I applaud you for that.
60-0. Instantly. That takes talent.
Seriously though, why post that here? It has no relevance, and more than anything you seem like a parasite, leeching onto anything you can relate to politics and releasing your views in toxic, offensive ways.
You don’t like liberals. Cool, OK. But tell people that somewhere where they actually give a shit.
No I was just bringing that up because the fact that these guys are getting paid for NOT doing their job.
It doesn’t have to be about politics when you call someone a “liberal” I’m talking about their ideology in something like this topic of Sonic.
It’s a battle of Idea’s in one topic or another and their idea’s are very liberal and bias with no regard for facts.
Not that someone can’t talk about a topic and think liberally with good idea’s, but these IGN guys take it way too far and cast themselves as irrelevant journalists which in this case they are.
These guys are the antithesis of liberal.
They say Sonic was always shit, and anyone who likes it is a furry who wants to fuck Big The Cat.
Liberal, according to the dictionary definition, is someone who “willing to respect or accept behaviour or opinions different from one’s own; open to new ideas.”
There is an oxymoron lying around there somewhere.
Also sorry for assuming it was about politics, I’ve been getting in a lot of political arguments lately. Mostly against internet dwelling Trump supporters. So I’m all too prepared to fight on the keyboard battlefront as the sad keyboard warrior I am would.
Well I mean… just as we can like Sonic, I don’t see why people can’t like Trump, that seems to disregard that definition of liberalism, but hey that’s just a theory… a slightly awkward political theory about Sonic and Trump… Yuge Loop-de-Loops!!!
Well, more the fact that his political views are blatantly hateful. There’s being liberal and then there is being apathetic towards the hatred that comes from a lot of Trump’s supporters.
I don’t even want to get into that, I’ve seen plenty of hate on both sides.
The American people are becoming angry and they don’t know how to handle that anger properly, but it isn’t just a minority of Trump supporters.
There are hateful Clinton supporters as well, but both sides have their fair share of good people you just have to dig deep and look for them.
No matter who becomes President, if there’s one thing I fear more than any hatred that may spew from the mouths of a minority, it’s a divided country and the people!
It’s not Trump nor Clinton that spews hate from their policies, it’s a frustrated minority of people who want to tear down a system and build something new and you can’t blame them for their anger.
I get what your talking about considering liberals today, but for the love of everything, let’s not bring politics into this. 1. Most people here won’t understand. 2. It’ll cause an unnecessary argument.
At this point I think they just want to see the franchise die. When we get Sonic good games then it’s called a fluke, we don’t know what good games, and we’re delusional. When we get a bad Sonic game then Sonic is dead, Sonic is never good, Sonic is a terrible franchise, etc
I think SEGA shouldn’t get their feedback from these guys. They still want to carry on that mindset that Sonic is never good. SEGA made a very wise choice to allow Christian Whitehead to work on a Sonic game for them, and Project Sonic 2017 isn’t coming out till another year and a half.
I agree that the media’s standards have slipped regarding Sonic coverage. I feel like a lot of game reporters don’t even think when discussing Sonic. I mean, come on, Sonic is a diverse franchise loaded with screw-ups– surely, if they’re going to insult Sonic, they can come up with better than “SONIC CYCLE IS GOD,” Sonlise, Big and his fandom bashing, etc. You’d think they’d make use of that realistic Sonic from Boom TV holding the garbage bag, if nothing else.
In a weird way, I have to thank the mainstream gaming media for something. Before GI’s Sonic Gens review, I trusted mainstream gaming media a lot. I mean, I guess the cracks were showing– I’d thought they were sort of harsh on MySims, and kind of hypocritical in covering Nintendo’s Wii, but I understood where they were coming from at the very least and still trusted the media to provide best content it could. Then I got Sonic Gens, enjoyed the heck out of it despite having little nostalgia for the Classic era– and also read GI’s biased, bad review of it. I of course criticized it, and from there my eyes were open. I began to notice bias in a lot of other areas of their reviews– why is COD being called innovative when it does the same things over and over again? Why do they ping-pong between saying that Nintendo is always making bad decision and saying that Mario is a genius franchise that Sonic can’t even hope to match up to? I thus developed analytical skills that would help me deduce the accuracy of other internet articles too. So, um… thanks for helping my critical analysis skills. Though it contributed to my Boost purism phase that was rather toxic and lead to some fairly cringey posts from me– so yeah, that’s not really good (Thank god I’m not like that anymore!).
Though I do think things are getting better. I remember when RoL came out, people all over were siding with the sentiment that Sonic fans are dumb, Sonic cycle (even though it doesn’t apply– last I checked everybody hated RoL from the start), and that Sonic is going to die. Come January 2015, however, and Justin Towell of gamesradar decided to jump on the Classic purism train and engage in the idiocy fans have grown accustomed to in the gaming media (http://www.gamesradar.com/why-sonic-should-be-retired-by-last-person-who-cared/). While there was a minority of gamers that thought he had finally seen the light, most on twitter and other outlets that hosted the article did not praise him for it. Those that had even heard of the guy pointed out that good games like Colors and Gens still existed despite his claims, showed hope for the next game, and generally did everything in their power to disprove the notion that he was “the last person who cared” about Sonic. And that was in early 2015, when there was still a significant amount of bitterness, discontent, frustration, even anger, over the impact of Boom on the franchise. As of now, that bitterness, discontent, etc. has largely dissipated in the Sonic fandom– so Sonic’s probably going to get even MORE defenders now. Especially with Sonic Mania coming out…
Originally, the reviews MIGHT have been made out of frustration for game after game of sub-par gameplay and polarizing gameplay styles. It might have resulted in some unprofessional behavior, but back then, fans could relate to the kind of frustration that leads to such reviews. Nowadays, it’s clear that things are being run by people who either never cared for Sonic or stopped caring long before they were required to write articles for the games.
I don’t know exactly how it became cool to kick Sonic around, since the vitriol in “official” circles seems a lot higher now then it ever did back when the franchise actually had little beyond garbage to offer. I just want to know: if these people honestly don’t care about Sonic, why do they keep bringing him up? Why do they berate fans? Why do they keep saying the same jokes and taglines if it doesn’t add anything to the ongoing discussion (and it IS an ongoing discussion)? What is the point of it all?
“I don’t know exactly how it became cool to kick Sonic around, since the vitriol in “official” circles seems a lot higher now then it ever did back when the franchise actually had little beyond garbage to offer. I just want to know: if these people honestly don’t care about Sonic, why do they keep bringing him up? Why do they berate fans? Why do they keep saying the same jokes and taglines if it doesn’t add anything to the ongoing discussion (and it IS an ongoing discussion)? What is the point of it all?”
In words of an old proverb, the cornered rat will bite the cat. As I see it, the mainstream gaming media thought it had a real windfall going for it in regards to Sonic– something that would always fail but which had failures that could quickly be turned to profit. Unfortunately, it is steadily losing evidence to back their hatred for Sonic, and they are fighting this process intensely. The reason the same cliche insults get brought up over and over again? Sonic’s been producing less and less content that warrants the creation of new insults, so the old ones are all they’ve got going for them. They’ve even been resorting to making up stuff about the nature of the game (something they’ve evidently done since Unleashed) because they’re running out of legitimate problems to prove that Sonic is fallen and will never be great again.
The sad thing is, the mainstream gaming media is practically dependent on Sonic hate nowadays to provide a quick rush of views and controversy when needed, hence why it discusses Sonic so much despite showing evidence of not really caring or knowing much about the franchise. Hey, it worked for IGN with Unleashed, didn’t it? But even that’s not working as well as it used to. That IGN video posted recently? Its gotten plenty of coverage on Sonic-themed sites, but has a lot less views and lower like-to-dislike ratio than Sonic Boom Fire and Ice despite coming from a major news company that a shocking amount of people trust. It is almost universally hated as well, even by non-Sonic fans. That’s right, we’ve reached the point where the public shows more interest and approval in a Sonic Boom game (which had been met with disapproval from the start) than an IGN video. That’s sad for IGN.
The point of it all is that the mainstream gaming media is losing a game it thought would be a guaranteed win for them– and one which its grown dependent on. And its not happy.
You guys want real shit, just watch X-Play’s review of Sonic Gems Collection.
I’d have to argue that, as a whole “Gaming Journalism” has gone down the shitter these days. Anyone remembers Polygon’s review of the new DooM game?
Also on the previous topic of X-Play, their review of Shadow’s game is quite honestly crap. Regardless of your opinions of the game, when they get to the “the game is racist” joke, I’m sorry, it’s like how Family Guy tries to be “raunchy” with it’s humor but it really just becomes painfully unfunny.
In the end tho, it’s hilarious really, everyone got the Sonic game the mainstream audience wanted with Colors, Lost World, and Sonic 4, yet they’re still not happy.
Anyway, here’s that Gems Collection review.
Heck, that treated the collection better than I expected, and better than a lot of the stuff we see as in the above.
Idk, I still could have done without the Breakfast Club spoof. It really had ZERO to do with the game on hand and just feels out of place as well as seems to take up a big part of the review instead of focusing on the game itself. I’d show the Shadow review but this comments section is already getting crammed with videos.
X-Play honestly always rubbed me the wrong way in my eyes back then an still honestly feel like they’re try-hards but without a doubt the vids above bashing Sonic for no real reason are very much worse.
The impression I got from the description was that it was a whole episode themed around classic games and The Breakfast Club, and this was only one segment. Admittedly, I’ve never seen the whole episode in question, but that’s just the impression that I got.
That, and wasn’t most of the spoof bookending the review? Didn’t seem to involve the review itself much, just whoever uploaded decided to keep those parts.
This article that Donnie made has good points and ign needs to get their shit together
… Sonic Robo Blast 2 *IS* a doom mod, though. it’s made using a modified version of the doom engine. how is that not a doom mod?
Is it? Because everyone’s saying otherwise. =S
Because we are talking about forked open-source projects ^^
Doom Legacy was a Doom engine. SRB2 isn’t just a mod created to run with Doom Legacy, the SRB2 Engine is a fork of Doom Legacy, and they don’t try to make their code run with any version of Doom Legacy.
Now the SRB2 Engine is it’s own piece of software, even if it’s based on a Doom Engine to begin with 🙂 To put it differently, SRB2 isn’t meant to run on a Doom engine, they develop an engine based on Doom’s one.
It’s more like the many fork of the OpenSource world, like for instance Libreoffice and OpenOffice, or Firefox and Palemoon.
Molten, that’s like saying that Half-Life is a Quake mod, because it was made using a modified version of the Quake engine…. That’s not at all how mods work.
Great article! And absolutely necessary I would say.
Just as everybody else I’m really upset to see such an offensive and completely unprofessional kind of journalism, especially as a Sonic fan and a gamer, I’m going to try and avoid saying what has been said already as it seems we are all (miraculously) on the same page here:
Game journalism in general has been seen more like a joke as time passes, and now one of the better known gaming sites just outright bashed, bullied and condemned every person claiming to like a Sonic game, they aren’t even well informed about the franchise, they even gave Sonic good reviews in the past, yet they treat the best news the Sonic community has had in years as a chance to insult and offend everyone happy about it or anyone that has ever liked Sonic for that matter.
And the saddest thing is that you’re right, we can try to ignore this kind of stuff but Sega won’t, they have listened to ridiculous complaints in the past like making Sonic the only playable character, don’t include songs, put less story in the games etc., hell I wouldn’t be surprised if all the similarities of Sonic Colors and Sonic Lost World had to Mario games were Sega efforts to appeal to IGN bias towards Mario games, and the worst thing of all is that Sega may listen to these kind of complaints once again.
This is truly a dark chapter, and this just came out when the Sonic fan community was almost unanimously excited for the upcoming games and just when the gaming community in general was turning their head to see what was next for Sonic with intrigue/curiosity/awe/excitement, I’m so done with IGN, and not only for this but because some other fan boyish behavior in regard to comics and movies as well (which I won’t dive into), if anyone reading feel the same I would suggest you to avoid visiting the site at all costs, don’t give them any more visits, clicks or views, much less comments please.
One of my favorite things to tell people during the so called age of “Sonic never being good” was, “If Sonic is a joke then gaming journalism isn’t even worth the time to laugh at”. Never thought I’d say this but… keep talking Donnie. So glad more people are being made aware of just how bias game journalism has gotten towards Sonic.
This. ALL OF MY THIS.
I’ve officially had all I can stand of IGN and their bias. I feel disgusted with myself for even WATCHING that ABOMINATION that IGN calls a “Scoop”.
Fuck IGN. If I EVER had any trust left for them (lost most of it after their Unleashed and Black Knight reviews), it’s all gone now.
Shut up donnie
Can’t remember which sonic game these sites reviewed that made me drop daily visits but thanks to that I haven’t visited them for years. All of them can go F themselves, same for the grumps.
-sigh-
The old thing about saying 2000s games were bad and Sonic “improved” when Colours came out. I don’t get it
-Everyone is out of character
-Double jumping without a shield
-Either boost to win or walk through boring 2D mazes
-Wisps
-Sonic can literally SWIM in that game
-There’s no sense of danger or adventure, and all the stages are straight outta Mario
-The whole thing tries to focus on humour
-The jokes are so awfully structured and corny they aren’t even proper jokes
-If it’s a theme park, where are the actual rides? What’s all this blank space during the cutscenes?
-It’s apparently impossible to make a fully 3D Sonic game anymore
-The fact there are so many characters is now worsened because they’re irrelevant
Are we hating on Colors? #1. Bashing it is irrelevant to this topic. #2. It’s a good game. You don’t like it? Don’t play it. But some of your criticisms are lame. “Sonic can swim” what’s the issue in that other than it doesn’t fit his character (which is the age old “Sonic can’t swim” trope?)
Colors level design was pretty flat and bland tbh, especially in comparison to the DS version, not to mention lacking quite a bit in interesting 3D sections, every single one being a boring straight hallway.
I wouldn’t call Sonic being able to swim in here, it’s more him repeatedly jumping.
Tbh, really, it’s still funny, the mainstream got what they wanted with Colors yet they’re still not happy. Hell, I’m surprised the Wisps are even liked, they’re far worse than the constant “Sonic’s stupid friends” complaint, at least I get a fair amount of time to learn how to play them and not worry about wonky, loose, uncontrollable gameplay styles that only last 5 or so seconds.
sorry, but your criticism on Colors is a bunch of stupid nitpicking. How is the stages looks like it came straight outta Mario? If you’re going to use Mario comparisons then at least show examples.
Tbh, I can’t wait for their eventual attempt to defend themselfs from all this legitimate critique. Considering the numerous reviews they have in which they praise Sonic, one can only imagine how they’re going to try to save face and defend their oh so precious “SONIC SUCKS” stigma.
And considering Aaron’s also called them out, this is gonna be fun.
Notice how the mainstream gaming media is starting to operate much like the mainstream news media that we see in politics today. Donnie if it weren’t for you man we’d be in the dark and disconnected. Hey I’ll even go as far to say you’re like the 2nd Aaron Webber of the Sonic community(and we still love you Aaron don’t ever leave us!) but seriously you’re 100% correct! I don’t get these mainstream gaming media guys anymore. It’s like they gotta have this tough guy hard core (bully style)approach if you will to all games. Its like they gotta act like the tough guy bully when it comes to all games and if you’re not in the “In Crowd” with them you’re deemed a pussy. Thank God you’re around Donnie cause at least we’re informed with the truth. I certainly don’t see or feel any bias coming from you. So if any of these main stream gaming reps etc hound you over this article. Flip em a flicky lol or just an angry bird 😆
PS: I still stand by this meme http://shadowbane2009.deviantart.com/art/IGN-Never-Taken-Seriously-585507485
I know I too have made many Sonic memes that seem sorta anti sonic too but I too have been and always will be a Sonic fan no matter what and I do these just in good dumb fun. 🙂
=3
Thank you! <3
Y’know, I believe Sonic is a very inclusive franchise, because it allows people to band together and have uncompromised fun together. Mario is a franchise for rich guys who think they are the best just because they have Nintendo Hardware. I like both Sony’s PlayStation Hardware and Nintendo’s handheld consoles, and while sometimes I’m an arrogant d***, I like to think both Sony’s Hardware and Nintendo’s hardware have both advantages and disadvantages.
Whoopsies! I was supposed to talk about Sonic, right? You see….I am an Asperger. Yes, I have Asperger’s Syndrome, and I like Sonic ever since I was seven years old. Right now, I’m itching to play Sonic Boom: Fire & Ice, which will be the closest thing to a Sonic game for me right now. You know what I like about Sonic? Is that basically EVERYONE who likes Sonic don’t care about the fact that they are either normal, autists, Aspergers or whatever. Because Sonic games make us all band together and fight for the greater good!
Regardless of my mental state, I am, and always will be, a fan of the Sonic the Hedgehog franchise in all of its forms, whether if it’s games, cartoons, comics, toys or whatever. My favorite characters? Knuckles and Amy. And I think the red echidna should get a REAL game of his own, because I just CAN’T consider “Chaotix” a Knuckles game, but rather, a “Knuckles and Friends” game. Knuckles could REALLy use a solo game of his own! Heck, he’s the Donald Duck of the Sonic Universe, so why not? As for Amy, while I like her Boom version better, I think Modern Amy should get a game of her own! Amy’s game should be like this: Amy and Cream go to a beach to sunbath and play on the water. Little do they know, however, that said beach is close to the lair of an evil witch, who needs a rabbit’s ankle to make her latest brew! The sky goes dark, a lightning falls, and the witch kidnaps Cream! Now it’s up to Amy to save the little bunny! If the game was made by me, I’d call it “Amy’s Amazing Adventure”. AAA. Get it?
And while I like the fact that Sonic Mania and Project Sonic 2017 are being done, I’d rather have SEGA make a “Sonic the Hedgehog Zero” of sorts – a game whose story happens before Sonic 1 and that tells the story of how Sonic and Dr. Eggman first became enemies. It should happen on Christmas Island (AKA Sonic’s former home) and introduce us to Sonic’s former group of friends – a group of friends who share many similarities with Tails, Knuckles and Amy. Dr. Eggman should be the main villain, but instead of wanting the Chaos Emeralds, Sonic Zero should have the Crystal Tear, which would be like a “predecessor” for the Chaos Emeralds. There also shouldn’t be a Super Sonic battle on this game, because Eggman only found out about the Chaos Emeralds in Sonic 1, and Sonic only became Super for the first time in Sonic 2. So no Super Sonic on Sonic Zero.
Whew! I talked too much. Anyways, I like Sonic and I will always like him, even though I prefer Knuckles and Amy and want to play as them again. See you guys soon!
Oh….oh god…WHY did I torture myself and sit through all of those videos? It was…awful. I’ve gotten pissed off at them for misrepresenting some of my favorite games like Kingdom Hearts before, but oh dear lord, this is just absolutely unforgivable.
Yeah, there’s no question, everything you’ve covered in this article is completely accurate. Everybody deserves to have their opinion, even if it’s that “something sucks”, but there’s a very simple fact to understand when it comes to news coverage: Nobody wants to hear your personal opinion. If you want to have a separate article or editorial or whatever where you make it expressly clear that it’s just you writing your opinion for those who are interested, that’s fine, go do that. But when you’re supposed to be covering an informative piece or a video that is supposed to share and inform people of what you actually saw, then that’s literally all you’re supposed to do, no one is clicking that article to see how you saw it.
And I’ll be honest, the lack of effort is almost more frustrating than the belligerent attempts to insult entire groups of people. They aren’t even really doing their jobs half the time, they hardly ever stay on topic about whatever they’re supposed to be covering, and they even take breaks to go out of their way to insult anyone for ever finding anything to enjoy in the series.
And yeah, the worst offense is in just how casually they insult the fans like that. I, I try not to let myself get too prone to anger, but IGN….FFFFFFFFFFFFUUUUUUUCK YOUUUUUUUU!!!!! Yeah while we’re all getting fucked by Big the Cat, you can go have fun riding the handle of Mario’s plunger while giving him a handjob, the way you talk about Mario games as if they were flawless and above any criticism whatsoever!! You fail as a gaming news coverage source! YOOOOOOU FAAIIIILLLL!!!!!!!
GASP, whew sorry there, I uh….I think I blacked out for a minute. Ulgh, don’t express bouts of blind fury too much kids, it’s bad for your psyche. Um, anyway, yeah, thanks for making such a great and truthful article Donnie. It’s good to get reminders that our true adversaries shouldn’t be each other but those who blatantly disregard us as a joke. Obviously saying “IGN sucks” isn’t really that constructive and is no better than what they themselves do (but booooyyyy does it feel good), but amidst all the arguments that we see fellow fans get into around sites like these all the time, we tend to forget that we have more reason to stand together than to yell at one another. Someday truthfulness, competence, care, and actual diligence will actually win out and the way that sites like IGN do things will start to fade away over time. But until then, while we shouldn’t just be running around in blind fits of rage about how they’re doing it wrong (uh, as I so subtly demonstrated…), we should still bring attention to this as much and as best as we can. To bring attention to this kind of thing so that the voices will eventually be heard and positive change can actually start to happen.
Because as often as we joke about how you can’t spell “ignorant” without IGN…well, yeah, it’s sadly the truth. This has all been terribly terribly ignorant and it just breeds more ignorance.
Sonic 1 – 8.6
Sonic 2 – 8.5
Sonic CD – 8.5
Sonic 3 – 9
Sonic & Knuckles – 9
Sonic Adventure – 8.6
Sonic Adventure 2 – 9.4
Sonic Heroes – 8.0
Sonic Advance – 9.1
Sonic Advance 2 – 9
Sonic Advance 3 – 9
Sonic Rush – 9
Sonic Rush Adventure – 8
Sonic Colors – 8.5
Sonic Colors DS – 8.5
Sonic 4: Episode 1 – 8
Sonic Generations – 8.5
Sonic & All-Stars Racing – 8.0
S&ASR Transformed – 8.6
These are just SOME of the review scores of Sonic games from IGN over the years. Look them up for yourselves. Are they ALL the review scores for each iteration of these games? No, I don’t have time for that. Do these scores fluctuate over time and between systems? Yes. Do I agree with all of them? No. This is just to show that…clearly…these four bozos have no idea what they’re talking about. The notion that Sonic the Hedgehog games have “never been good” always come from people that aren’t credible…their own site disagrees with them heavily, since at one point or another, MUTIPLE SONIC GAMES HAVE BEEN REVIEWED HIGHLY BY THEIR OWN SITE. Don’t hate the site. Just laugh at these four clowns.
Don’t forget they gave Sonic Pocket Adventure (of all games) a perfect 10 out of 10. You really can’t spell ignoramus with IGN.
Also, it matters not who specifically is talking about it, they still represent the viewpoints of IGN, and if this is their viewpoints, based off of blatant lies and misinformation, then why should I EVER trust IGN with ANYTHING Sonic ever?
Right!? Pocket Adventure…perfect 10…fuck? Also I understand where you’re coming from COMFORT, but my point is that judging by these reviews…some people very clearly have/had opposed opinions to the “Sonic was never good” argument. I don’t blame the site as a whole so much as I blame the dummies directly for saying it.
They want to make the whole “Sonic was never good” more mainstream and trendy. They’re not there to report and be informative about the upcoming titles, they’re just pandering and saying a bunch of defamatory statements they think their viewers wants to hear because berating the Sonic series and it’s fanbase is the ‘cool’ thing to do nowadays. They’re encouraging more people to spread negativity towards the Sonic franchise, and even if the upcoming games are good they’re not going to matter much because people accuse us for being delusional for even enjoying or saying the games are good.
And the weirdest thing of all is that these reviews scores seem very legit as that what I think most of those games deserve.
I don’t hate the site either but it has been deteriorating over time and not only on the gaming front, if they’re now hiring people like these IGNorants to give us scopes of our favorite games then I’m done with this particular site.
The fact that they are supposed to represent the site they make videos and write reviews for is exactly why the site should be receiving this much flak, otherwise the people in charge might not ever get wise to what’s being done wrong. Clearly there’s some kind of miscommunication issue here, as they can’t even bother to keep people with consistent standards talking about the same games. Either that or there’s an incentive to bash some games and praise others due to whatever profit or benefit comes out of that, but I know nothing about that business so I could just be making that up.
Another funny random thing to bring up, someone from IGN actually wrote a FAVORABLE review of Sonic Free Riders. Yeah, the game that practically nobody can even play, they gave a praising review of it. Now granted I think this was still an early copy review and who knows, maybe IGN’s offices have a better Kinect set up than I do, but the review was so inconsistent with every little thing about the game that random internet reviewers have been able to point out. It’s probably one of the best things I’ve ever heard an IGN article say about a Sonic game…and it’s arguably considered by fans to be one of the worst games out there. Even when IGN is allowed to hate they still find some strange way to be contradictory to what common fans already understand.
This just gives me more credence to my theory that there’s some kind of weird incentive going on with some game review sites where they’re already told what kind of review they’re going to give before they know what they’re reviewing. It’s nothing to go off of, this is literally my only “evidence”…but it’s either that or most of IGN’s staff got replaced with aliens that don’t understand our “huuu-man” video games and just pretend they know what they’re talking about.
Both are nonsensical, but they still make a lot more sense than whatever these IGNorant people say. XP
great review. also that POS forum neogaf is crapping this article with shit posters like Piston Hyundai and Son of a Witch.
great topic. also that POS forum neogaf is crapping this article with shit posters like Piston Hyundai and Son of a Witch.
*fixed post
Yeah. He knows. But like he said on Twitter they are just proving his point. First, they apparently are not reading the article because he clearly showed he isn’t talking about the bad games or even not liking Sonic.
Or them Telling us not to take a joke seriously.
This is directed towards them (not you), but if someone makes a serious joke that is intended to be racist do we get upset? For most yes. Because you are encouraging the hate/and the demeaning of other people.
In the same way, we have a right to feel upset if you say things as a joke that are intended to demean anyone who likes Sonic.
If I did that to a peer in real life, someone could hurt themselves for fealing hated or such. The only difference is that you said it to a group.
But sorry I had to rant. XD.
you should see the owner of Neogaf. Tyler Malka,he threw a big tantrum the day Iwata passed away ’cause people were asking him to have a remembrance forhim. he’s the king of tantrums. if you argue with the asshat, he’ll delete your account.
They’re just proving my point, if anything.
This post has nothing to do with the quality of Sonic games. No one’s denying that the quality of Sonic games is all over the place. However, it goes both ways. I expect SEGA to do their job well, but I also expect the media to do their job well.
The funny thing is, I stated multiple times on Twitter that I have nothing against IGN or any of the mainstream gaming websites. I’m not even mad. I wasn’t even mad when I wrote the article, just sleepy because I had not slept for a whole day. I was merely presenting my case, nothing more. I have no problem if people disagree with it, but if i’m a “fanboy” or “throwing a tantrum”, then that’s their problem, not mine.
donnie you’re too awesome for neogaqf to handle.
Exactly, I agree wholeheartedly. It isn’t fair at all. And this is most definitely not fanboyism, and like you said, it’s their problem, not yours.
I’m glad that you’ve made this article. What you said needs to be said, and we need to stop being silent about this and allowing the media to carry on this wrong perspective of Sonic fans and walk all over us. Sonic fans are so terrible, but Sonic Mania is being develop by a Sonic fan.
Regardless if you like the games or not, it doesn’t justify the personal attacks on Sonic fans that are excited about Mania/Project 2017 or like Sonic in general. This is bullying plain and simple.
When exactly did IGN become the gaming world equivalent of TMZ, because this is just as shameful. XP
Oh, come on. TMZ may be despicable, but they’re not NEARLY as evil as IGN.
Great article, Donnie. Gotta agree with you 100%. The majority of the negative stigma the Sonic series has gotten over the years isn’t just from the bad Sonic games, but from the gaming ‘journalists’ that blow everything out of proportion, act like there’s NOTHING good about the series, and insults the fanbase for liking the series and merely existing.
This shit is why SEGA’s been playing it safe for so long with their more recent games. This is why we may not see playable characters other than Sonic in main series Sonic Team console game for a loooooooooong time. I’m honestly surprised that Project Sonic 2017 seems to have a darker, more serious tone, but only time will tell how well this will actually play out.
Great article, and this is something I’ve noticed starting when Shadow the Hedgehog was first revealed. That was the turning point for the franchise in the mainstream media.
Unfortunately, instead of bouncing back with Sonic 2006, SEGA shoved out an unfinished, sloppy game. I remember when people said that the game featured “bestiality” as a way to mock the title. When it in fact features nothing of the sort.
Creating the Werehog only made things worse. While SEGA and Sonic Team are to blame for the bad games, IGN, other sites, and the gaming community at large are to blame for creating such toxicity surrounding them.
The internet works with a bandwagon mentality, its “cool” to hate Sonic and the Sonic fan base. Its acceptable to be so openly harsh and critical of the games and the humans that play them, because almost no one is likely call you out on it. The actual fans who watch the toxic videos (like the 2 IGN videos posted above) or read the trolling posts will likely stay silent and just shake their heads and move on.
Years ago, I used to talk about Sonic on websites like IGN, but eventually I gave up. Its just not worth the time or energy to waste on such ignorant people.
And that’s not a flaw with the games. That’s a flaw with the gaming community. They suck more than the worst of all Sonic games.
Heh, I actually agree with you regarding the bestiality thing. The problems with Sonlise lies in its unbelievably shallow and cliche writing. They’re both capable of consenting to the relationship, so bestiality isn’t the issue. But that’s a bit off-topic.
But I think the quality of Sonic games is irrelevant to the quality of writing that journalists put out and to the amount of respect which people are treated with. Its used by people to poison the well, or divert conversation away from topic at hand by introducing a point that is controversial enough to get attention but is at best nonsensical and at worst blatant misrepresention. And people say that Sonic has to earn its respect and trust back before it’ll get decent coverage– but when was the last time you heard somebody accuse a Bubsy fan of wanting to have sex with bobcats? Or accuse Watchdog fans of being nothing but jerks and morons, who all make bad fanart and porn? When was the last time somebody claimed that people who still like and have hopes Mega Man are in an abusive relationship with Capcom (and yes, I have heard people say that about Sonic fans before)? Or tried to claim that Mega Man was never good in the first place whenever Capcom screws him up? Or, heck, when was the last time any of those franchises were compared unfavorably the likes of ET for the Atari, with minimal explanation– or when any of their fandoms were dismissed as just being “autistic” and needing to like other franchises instead (regardless of if they don’t actually enjoy the suggested franchises)?
If the issue is solely quality, those franchises and fandoms would be affected by the same hate that the Sonic franchise and fandoms face on a regular basis. And for Sonic, its worse– this didn’t entirely go away even with good games coming out. Around 2010-2011, people were still claiming that most of Sonic is crap and that anybody who likes games besides a limited few are morons, autistic, etc. Clearly, there’s something deeper going on here.
I blame greed for money and attention on the part of the media, and the gaming community for falling for this crap when it wouldn’t for any other franchise, thus allowing it to proliferate. But while I agree that you need to choose your battles, I don’t think its fair to stop talking about Sonic outside of fansites. The only way to change perspectives for good is to disrupt the echo chamber that gamers have formed in regards to Sonic– and that means expressing your disagreement in a productive way. Don’t expect people to instantly accept your views, but if you keep talking (and provide lots of evidence and politeness along the way), people will steadily become more accepting of them.They might appear to be increasingly irritated, dismissive, angry, etc., but in most cases, the people don’t actually have anything against you personally but rather are growing frustrated because you’re asking them to seriously consider the implications of something they haven’t thought very much about in a long time, if at all.
“And people say that Sonic has to earn its respect and trust back before it’ll get decent coverage.”
And all I have to say to that is do your fucking job. I’d rather they don’t cover Sonic at all if all they’re going to do is insult the series, the fanbase, and they don’t even bother to do proper research. That’s lazy and crappy journalism.
“The actual fans who watch the toxic videos (like the 2 IGN videos posted above) or read the trolling posts will likely stay silent and just shake their heads and move on.”
Sonic fans are definitely not staying silent about it. You see how much backlash those videos are getting from Sonic fans and people who simply likes the series? I think Sonic fans needs to be speak up more. We’re tired of the community who treats us like an outcast for being fans, and acts like it’s a crime to like anything Sonic.
My reply is to Chocoburger btw…
I wrote a nice letter to Ziff Media citing my opinions and my problems with their quote on quote journalistic integrity. I don’t know if it’s been heard, but I’ve definitely voiced mine. 🙂
I was that IN video posted on Instagram and I’ll repeat my response,here; I’d love to see the Sonic community get together and just spam GIN and other’s social media accounts with their support of the Sonic franchise. Again, not saying all games are good but that we have the right to be fans. I think a #SonicSolidarity hashtag has a nice ring to it
I would like to offer a bit of criticism.
“I haven’t even gone into the very similar antics of a certain Let’s Play channel that is more so grump than not so grump.”
I think this sentence kinda undermines the idea of your article. You’ve been insisting that this article is solely aimed at the way the mainstream games media covers the Sonic series, so where do semi-professional let’s players(not journalists) fit into this? The Game Grumps are just two guys that a have a negative opinion on a media franchise. They don’t have any obligation to cover any video game in any specific way. You are free to dislike their opinions, and even consider them poorly informed, but that’s a debate that’s separate from the supposed point of this article. Attacking people for sincerely disliking Sonic is what you’re insisting was not the point of your article. but that’s exactly what this little out-of-place jab was. .
to be fair, it’s not just that the Grumps don’t like Sonic. they keep playing the games /anyway/ because they want to earn money off of cheap insults and games they don’t enjoy and never intended to enjoy. it kinda undermines the idea of a Let’s Play; it’s not about the games, it’s about the money, money, money
Even if what you’re claiming is 100% true, I don’t care in the slightest. Making fun of video games in a casual context is one of the least objectionable ways to drive views that I can think of.
What Max said.
Max’s response was unreasonable and childish. I’ve been trying to give your article the benefit of the doubt, but after viewing further criticism, and seeing your poor responses to some of that criticism, I can’t do that anymore.
How was it “unreasonable and childish”? He never used insults, nor did he talk down to you. He simply explained his point. Which is exactly what I’ve been doing. And seeing how his point and the reasoning for his point was the same as mine, I simply pointed to his remarks. If explaining my points makes my responses “poor”, then I can’t even imagine what you think of responses that are much worse.
It just seems like you dislike it when someone debates with you.
This does bring up an excellent point. But now, the question is what do we do? What do we do know that we know that this bias exist? Cause I don’t wanna see Sonic go under be cause of this.
Just now reading this article and it’s the most incredible and honest thing I’ve ever read. Keep up the amazing writing, Donnie!
<3
http://dracold.deviantart.com/journal/Sonicgate-626814058
you should read this Donnie
I was just about to post that. And boy can I not wait for Donnie to come in and debunk that dumb and Unnecessarily long article.
Just seeing this, and yes. It is long. He also gives little sources here, other than a chart that was only one bullet point in a list of things I criticized.
“you have investment in this franchise, so you naturally feel like you need to be defending it” “You know… this thing with the “professional” reviewers is no conspiracy. It is really their opinion. They don’t do this because “they hate on Sonic”.” There’s just one problem: I don’t “naturally feel like defending it”. I give credit where credit is due. People seem to think “hey, he’s defending Sonic in this article, so clearly he does it all the time”. Even though I don’t. And here’s the thing. If they don’t have investment in Sonic, I expect them to be neutral in their articles and keep the opinionated stuff elsewhere. I have a podcast called The SonicNews Show, where I’ve been critical about everything. Fans, SEGA, games, everything. But I never promote it on TSSZ or any news site I’m on because it’s heavily opinionated, unrelated, and because there’s no point to link to it. I’m not going to make my podcast official TSSZ work just because I’m in it. It’s the opposite with Game Scoop. IGN put it on their site. So I’m going to judge it as official IGN work. And it was a poor attempt. Besides, that’s not all that made me question the video. Them “hating on Sonic” isn’t even the point. if this guy read the article, this would’ve been clear. It has nothing to do with them hating Sonic, it’s how. And I already explained how in the article. Even if they’re not actually professional, I could care less. I’m not going to give excuses. You’re getting paid to do the job of reporting on the latest gaming news. I expect you to do that job right. If you’re going to give critical analysis of Sonic, regardless of how negative you get, I expect it to be done in a mature, reasonable manner. Actually, if the video was a lot like the way this guy made that DeviantArt post I would’ve liked the video a lot more. I don’t have a problem with opinions, I have a problem with the lack of respect and manners. This DeviantArt article has respect and manners. The IGN video did not. If you want an example of how to be critical of Sonic but be mature about it, here’s some other folks, which includes ex-IGN employees, be negative of Sonic but do it in a way which is more respectful: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aTKXv4GhcaY
The best thing about the video I linked? When they’re joking, the jokes are not only harmless, but you can tell they’re joking. I can’t say the same for the other video.
“While the sales imply that despite the interest was getting slightly worse over time in the 2000s (which might have very well been caused by the technical quality), this “bounce back up” was in reality a significant downfall”. So the usual “my opinion = factually correct” argument.
“And only now you get to criticize Game Grumps.” The funny thing is, I never even criticized them. I referenced them and said “don’t get me started on them”. And…that’s it. I only referenced them because, to be honest, I feel like their LPs on Sonic are giving me similar vibes to the way the mainstream gaming media covers Sonic. Ultimately, though, I could care less. They’re LPers, and their antics haven’t gone for an entire decade like the gaming media’s has. If I really did care, I would’ve said a whole lot more about them.
“The notion that it’s irrelevant if it were different people who wrote it, since it’s on the same site and thus it’s the official statement of the site. Yeah, maybe you could say this logic shouldn’t work with… “fansites”… but as you can see, the public still approaches your news the same way, possibly giving it the same credibility. After all, it’s called “TSSZ News”, not “blog of Donnie and his friends”.” I’m not even sure what he’s talking about here. I assume he’s saying I’m a hypocrite because TSSZ has the similar issue of different writers representing the site, or something like that…but he literally debunks his own argument as he presents it. TSSZ’s a fan site. IGN is not. Also worth noting: the Dreams Collection article was written only less than a year after I joined, when I was still learning the ropes, so to speak.
Lastly, he says “don’t worry about reviewers, they’re irrelevant”. And again, if he actually read the article, he would’ve seen that I acknowledged this. But the point isn’t that we see them as irrelevant (I sure as hell think that), but that SEGA sees them as relevant. Do I agree with them seeing reviews that way? No. But they do, and it’s something we have to keep in mind when they’re developing their games. So we have to care about these reviews, even though we feel like the relevancy is gone.
I just can’t see how anybody could say Sonic was never good. It’s just plain idiocy. There are plenty of good Sonic games…
Fortunately Sonic is still selling in the millions with their successful games, and the idea that IGN is a pile of garbage is becoming increasingly well known and reinforced.
They’re like creationalists. Idiots who have a large mouth and piss people off, but don’t amount to much (in the UK anyway).
It’s creationists. What does that have to do with Sonic? You basically just insulted something that you biasly dislike, which is the same problem with the gaming media towards Sonic. The hypocrisy in your post is embarrassing.
I see somebody doesn’t understand the basic communication skill of using an example.
I don’t dislike Creationalists. They’re simply wrong in many things and that’s that. Same thing here, IGN is simply wrong with their insane statements.
Opinion is irrelevant in the face of facts.
Lovely review, and it highlights some of the issues I have with most review sites, bot the old ones and the new Youtube ones.
I’ve stopped almost entirely from looking at reviews because of the professional ethics in them. Nothing makes me more annoyed and depressed that seeing a “journalist” state offhand that if you like Sonic, you’re a furry pedo freak.
I also do have some growing concerns with the Sonic fan communities and sites, I’ve been noticing a rather large growth of toxicity in the “Speed only, no platforming” crowds along with a baffling rise of Political Correctness along side of it. Both things which makes it harder then ever to actually talk about what one wants in a Sonic game.
IGN is just a shitty game reviewer in general. TOO MUCH WATER!